ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in   

NG3 at Gamescon
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Ninja Fortress Forum Index -> Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
neoryu
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 107



PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MSX2 wrote:
You can make crappy games look great in vids but reality may be different. Ninja Theory excels at presentation and that's about it.


To be fair, the same thing you just said can be said about NG3 as well. The game could be a lot worse once it is finally out. We won't know for sure without playing it, so you never know either.

Leave Sath alone. He has a right to express his discontent with one aspect of NG3. At least he does so without such bias and thinly veiled hatred. Cool He has been specific. Trying to get him to blindly hate is not a friendly thing to do.

Sath has a right to feel excited for DmC just as you have a right to feel excited for Hayashi's next "gift" to you.


MSX2 wrote:

At any rate, the situation here is 2009 all over again with NGS2. Yes, that game had some slowdown, ironically caused by the volumetric purple mist, but it was a smoother experience. I've got more and more sensitive to input lag and slowdown (everyone has a threshold), and NGII's frame rate fluctuations drove me nuts with a recent replay.


Lol, you're talking about input lag and controller delay when NGS2 is significantly less responsive to control than NG2. Veteran NG players confirm this regularly. Such hate for NG2 and Bayonetta on the Xbox 360 comes from you, MSX2. I wonder why. Rolling Eyes

A recent replay of NG2?? Lol, yeah right. Whatever makes you feel better about your insecurity. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Female Tengu
Superior Ninja
Superior Ninja


Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 687
Location: Germany
Gamertag: GalaxySpider PSN: GalaxySpider

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neoryu wrote:


Exactly right. The whole "sub-HD" this, "sub-HD" that argument is so 2007. It's a Sony fanboy talking point this gen and it's bred from sheer insecurity. NG2 looked amazing and has MUCH more going on technically compared to any other game in the series. Owning them all and approaching them without bias is a virtue.




Amazing?

Take a look at Sigma 1 Ryu

http://static2.videogamer.com/videogamer/media/images/ps3/ninja_gaiden_sigma/screens/ninja_gaiden_sigma_14.jpg

And now at the NG2 Ryu:

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/842/842935/ninja-gaiden-2-screenshots-20071221100124966.jpg

No anti aliasing (not visible on this bullshot), not even a skin texture(!!), weak lighting and shadowing. He looks like a plastic doll, seriously. He only looked better in some cutscenes.

Higher resolution, more polys and textures need a lot of processing power. Especially if you are making a game on the PS3 with just 256 RAM and 256 VRAM.

What TN did with Sigma 1 and Sigma 2 was making a game up-to-date, and not looking like a "last gen". Of course they had to take out stuff like werewolfs in the Volf boss arena, not that much enemies on screen (they wanted to make the game easier anyway, so who cares) and so on. But at least I can say "next gen" to NG now. And we got lots of other stuff in exchange for it. And
I love the SIGMA 2 visuals combined with ass-kicking NG gameplay. I never touched NG2 again since the game came out.


Just by looking at both screens here, you can easily tell which game is Sigma 2 and NG2. Increased polycount (shoulders, and the body in general like the chest area), high res textures (sword) and headarea, believable and good looking lighting + improved bump- and normal mapping. Better color depth (in the second screen Ryu "merges" with the background, looks bad).
If you think that TN uses the graphics as "excuses" than you have no really idea how graphics are working. Tell me if I'm wrong about what you said and I will take that back. Oh, and all the changes were not just made to Ryu. Enemies, environments, gfx, everything.

NG2s engine is far away from looking "amazing".





If there is one NG that looks amazing, it's Sigma 2. NG2 looked like an updated Xbox game, even during release.

I dont care how much was going on during combat. Fact is that NG2 was broken in general, gameplay wise. Getting spammed by hundreds of ninjas with stupid ISs is not what I call "melee" combat but this another story.
And YES, I played trough Master Ninja on all NG games, yes I have my MN achievement, yes I'm under the best 2000 NG2 players worldwide and yes I have my Sigma 2 platinum trophy and yes I'm a NG vet and the 360 is the console I play the most on. Just to counter some arguements (fanboys and all that stuff) ^^

And are you really serious about what you said. I mean, why should a fanboy defend the technical aspects of Sigma 2? Actually this was the reason I answered in the first place to your post

Quote:
Lol, you're talking about input lag and controller delay when NGS2 is significantly less responsive


I never experienced any form of "input lag". Not in NG2 and not in Sigma 2. My only problem on the PS3 are the thumbsticks. Maybe I just never noticed it. Can you give some examples?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
neoryu
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 107



PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are using those widely known about Gameswire screenshots, Female Tengu. I can see NG2 and NGS2 just fine without being filtered through a small time website's lens of bias. I'm gaming on an HD setup using identical hookups (both at HDMI at native display resolution, etc). They clearly did no such thing in their little "comparisons" lol. Their shots of NG2 look like they aren't even running in progressive scan mode. Laughing

What's in front of me on a daily basis speaks volumes compared to what some website who wants to generate hits puts out there on the net. If NG2 looks bad or out of date these days, then so does NGS2. They didn't reinvent their tech with the PS3 port. There were some lighting changes made for better and worse, some bump maps added here & there, and some polygons and alpha transparencies removed. The two games definitely look "different" in still screenshots. I'm not saying NGS2 doesn't run at a higher native res by default. What I'm saying is, when things are running, that's where a lot can be explained about each games visual priorities. How the end user feels about image clarity vs gameplay is really what's being debated here. Furthermore, the difference in each game's image is nowhere near as large as Gamewire's pre-release hype would have you believe.

Here's how I see it: You could run a PS1 game at 720P and put it beside a Gamecube game running at 480P. Naturally, the GC supports much more processing horsepower, so more will be going on in the game compared to its 720P PS1 counterpart. Just because one engine is pushing less geometry at any given time does not necessarily mean it is more impressive just because it has a slightly clearer image. Resolution is not everything when it comes to a measure of technical performance. See Virtua Fighter 2 Sega Saturn vs Arcade Model 2 version.

But since you are into the "the screenshots don't lie" game, look at these Digital Foundry FaceOff pics here and see the VERY minor difference in the clarity of these stills:


PS3: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/5/ss_preview_Lighting_08_NGS2.jpg.jpg

360: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/5/ss_preview_Lighting_08_NG2.jpg.jpg


PS3: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/5/ss_preview_Lighting_04_NGS2.jpg.jpg

360: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/5/ss_preview_Lighting_04_NG2.jpg.jpg


PS3: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/5/ss_preview_Lighting_09_NGS2.jpg.jpg

360: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/5/ss_preview_Lighting_09_NG2.jpg.jpg


PS3: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/8/ss_preview_Pixel_03_NGS2.jpg.jpg

360: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/8/ss_preview_Pixel_03_NG2.jpg.jpg.jpg


PS3: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/8/ss_preview_Pixel_09_NGS2.jpg.jpg

360: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/8/ss_preview_Pixel_09_NG2.jpg.jpg


PS3: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/8/ss_preview_Pixel_10_NGS2.jpg.jpg

360: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/2/8/ss_preview_Pixel_10_NG2.jpg.jpg


PS3: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/0/7/ss_preview_Wet_04_NGS2.jpg.jpg

360: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/0/7/ss_preview_Wet_04_NG2.jpg.jpg


PS3: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/0/7/ss_preview_Wet_10_NGS2.jpg.jpg

360: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/0/7/ss_preview_Wet_10_NG2.jpg.jpg


PS3: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/3/8/ss_preview_NGS2_Action_09.jpg.jpg

360: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/3/8/ss_preview_NG2_Action_09.jpg.jpg


PS3: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/3/8/ss_preview_NGS2_Action_03.jpg.jpg

360: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/8/1/5/3/3/8/ss_preview_NG2_Action_03.jpg.jpg

Note that those do not even take into account how much screen tearing was introduced only in the NG"S"2 version. 360 NG2 almost never tears frames. Try to image all of that gore and flying limbs, almost 50% more enemies to chop down at any given time, more effects like essence animation as it appears, and noticeably faster gameplay speed in NG2. NGS2 is potentially nicer for a slideshow only in my opinion. Where did Gameswire go wrong in their attempts to incite a fanboy flame war for attention?? Lol.


Last edited by neoryu on Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:34 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neoryu
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 107



PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Female Tengu wrote:
Take a look at Sigma 1 Ryu

http://static2.videogamer.com/videogamer/media/images/ps3/ninja_gaiden_sigma/screens/ninja_gaiden_sigma_14.jpg

And now at the NG2 Ryu:

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/842/842935/ninja-gaiden-2-screenshots-20071221100124966.jpg


Mate, your point here fails hard because you are comparing a game model that looks "next gen" vs. a model from a game that plays next-gen. Big difference there, so nuff said.

Female Tengu wrote:
No anti aliasing (not visible on this bullshot), not even a skin texture(!!), weak lighting and shadowing. He looks like a plastic doll, seriously. He only looked better in some cutscenes.



All of Tecmo's classic Team Ninja games had the plastic doll look. It's been Team Ninja's trademark and tradition under Itagaki. You don't like it. that's ok. It's your preference for a more realistic instead of anime-ish look. Itagaki clearly went for his traditional visual style and tried contrasting it with the grittiness of balls to the wall gore. That juxtaposition worked for me, since I've been a fan of Team Ninja games looooong before a few ports went to Sony. Anyone who does not understand why Team Ninja's graphical style was retained under Itagaki through multiple hardware generations knows nothing about Team Ninja's previous design philosophy at all.

Female Tengu wrote:
Higher resolution, more polys and textures need a lot of processing power. Especially if you are making a game on the PS3 with just 256 RAM and 256 VRAM.



True. But all of those alpha transparencies and MUCH higher polygon counts in NG2 require a great deal of processing power too. 360's 10mb eDRAM is a huge asset. PS3's Bluray disc is a huge asset for higher fidelity FMV's. What I'm saying is, both systems have their strengths. They could have ran NGS2 on 360 (at the same 718P native res) if they chose to make some sacrifices like they did with the PS3 version. What those sacrifices are for a game are good or bad depending on user preference. At least in your case, it isn't clear user "bias" which drives your thought process. You just prefer having realistic textures and higher res everything over more gameplay.

Female Tengu wrote:
What TN did with Sigma 1 and Sigma 2 was making a game up-to-date, and not looking like a "last gen". Of course they had to take out stuff like werewolfs in the Volf boss arena, not that much enemies on screen (they wanted to make the game easier anyway, so who cares) and so on. But at least I can say "next gen" to NG now. And we got lots of other stuff in exchange for it. And
I love the SIGMA 2 visuals combined with ass-kicking NG gameplay. I never touched NG2 again since the game came out.



Mate, to each his or her own. What constitutes next gen is defined by far more than just resolution. Almost no game runs at above 25-30fps nowadays, which means NG's fluid gameplay style is quite scarce. You like having less polygons and enemies, plus the easier difficulty. I get that. But saying one game is "broken" because: 1) it utilizes more polygons for dismemberment, 2) has more enemies onscreen, 3) has more gore as a result of enemies being destroyed with blunt & sharp weapons, and 4) has a higher overall difficulty ceiling is a bit rich. Many a gamer who has played all the NG games extensively will tell you that what Sigma 1 and 2 did is take a few steps forward and many steps back in a variety of ways.


Female Tengu wrote:
Just by looking at both screens here, you can easily tell which game is Sigma 2 and NG2. Increased polycount (shoulders, and the body in general like the chest area), high res textures (sword) and headarea, believable and good looking lighting + improved bump- and normal mapping. Better color depth (in the second screen Ryu "merges" with the background, looks bad).
If you think that TN uses the graphics as "excuses" than you have no really idea how graphics are working. Tell me if I'm wrong about what you said and I will take that back. Oh, and all the changes were not just made to Ryu. Enemies, environments, gfx, everything.

NG2s engine is far away from looking "amazing".

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5790/ngs2ryu2.jpg

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4401/ng2ryu2.jpg



Addressed this all in the message above this one. ^See above message^

Female Tengu wrote:
If there is one NG that looks amazing, it's Sigma 2. NG2 looked like an updated Xbox game, even during release.



No, the updated Xbox game is Sigma 1, which Sigma 2 strives to scale its gameplay down to become much closer to. Cool

NG2 is like no other NG game. To disregard the overall change in direction it brought to the series, plus any refinements it made for the better, proves a genuine lack of knowledge possessed by anyone who would suggest such a thing.


Female Tengu wrote:
I dont care how much was going on during combat. Fact is that NG2 was broken in general, gameplay wise. Getting spammed by hundreds of ninjas with stupid ISs is not what I call "melee" combat but this another story.
And YES, I played trough Master Ninja on all NG games, yes I have my MN achievement, yes I'm under the best 2000 NG2 players worldwide and yes I have my Sigma 2 platinum trophy and yes I'm a NG vet and the 360 is the console I play the most on. Just to counter some arguements (fanboys and all that stuff) ^^




On the subject of NG2 being "broken" in terms of gameplay, that is another subject altogether. Many veterans who are REALLY good at the game disagree with you on that. Surviving through MN is not a measure of "I am great at NG". It takes more than that to master, as many other vets will attest to. Beating a game once on the hardest difficulty level and putting it down after it kicked my ass all the way through wouldn't give me the right to act like I knew anything about the game in question.

Since you brought up personal statlines: I earned the full 1250/1250 achievements in NG2, finished all NG games on their highest difficulty setting available (2004's NG1 with no outside help), beat MN on NGB's Mission and Story modes, beat Hurricane Pack 1 and 2 on vanilla NG1-- yet I don't think I'm some supreme gamer. I still learn new things about NG2, even though I've done so many runs on MN and earned a first run karma score of over 55 million. If I can do that, then so can anyone. NGS2 is good, but it's still NG2's good qualities that give it any merit whatsoever. Therefore, it makes no sense to condemn one and exalt the other if you've given both a fair shake.

Veterans (besides you and me) found Sigma 2 to be inferior to NG2 precisely because of the gameplay alone, ironically. Though most of them feel neither can usurp NGB. To me personally, the only thing broken about NG2 were the instantly exploding incendiary shuriken ONLY when a missed IS lands near Ryu and hits the ground or wall... and.. the Mission mode patch when it first came out. One was fixed and the other can be dealt with through skillful playing.

If anything, people should be crying about Sigma 2's one hit kills on MN, since you cannot change the tide and come back from those in the heat of combat. You can control each encounter in NG2, but it requires a lot more reflexes and precise execution under intense pressure. NGB is more methodical and perhaps more predictable. It's also the most polished NG game in existence. But it is nowhere near as dynamic as NG2, since those fights play out differently almost every time. Sigma 2's one hit kills are worthy of being considered a broken idea for Hayashi to come up with, but I just take it like a Super Ninja and play. Super Ninja's don't whine, we divide our enemies in two and keep it moving.

Female Tengu wrote:
And are you really serious about what you said. I mean, why should a fanboy defend the technical aspects of Sigma 2? Actually this was the reason I answered in the first place to your post


You are clearly not a fanboy, Female Tengu. I don't like that word and never outright assign it to anyone directly, but there are many of them who are like cockroaches polluting peaceful forums with their bias. Knowing these people from other boards is possible when they tend to follow the same games. You are just a NG fan with strong convictions. We won't always agree, but it is how we disagree that counts. A fanboy will always find a way to hide behind their bias and pretend to possess intelligence.

Female Tengu wrote:
I never experienced any form of "input lag". Not in NG2 and not in Sigma 2. My only problem on the PS3 are the thumbsticks. Maybe I just never noticed it. Can you give some examples?


On my copy of NGS2, a lot of times Ryu just will...not...dash in the heat of combat. Evil It is often that my button presses in NGS2 register erratically, which can be fatal on MN with the Sigma 2-only one hit kills. All inputs feel "heavier" and less snappy. I have a new Dual Shock 3, which I'm using right now for UC2. This issue never happened to me in NG2 either, though I do get delayed input registering in the Chapter 10 stairs fight on Mentor and MN only. That is just one battle though.

In closing, if it makes you feel any better, Ayane's Sigma 2 DLC costume is pure hawtness. NG2 Ayane was er...different. They must have been going for a mature look, which imo failed with Ayane fans everywhere. Don't know what they were thinking with her redesign in Sigma 1 either. But again, image clarity is only part of the story when discerning hardware processing performance. People here, including you, have admitted that dismembered body parts being removed from NG3 is freeing up resources in the engine. That speaks for itself.


Last edited by neoryu on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CoolBlackKnight
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Ishtaros' Bed(She's kinky with that whip)


PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

* grabs popcorn *


.....
_________________
"I see you deny your brain its purpose... it yearns to think, but you hold it back."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Female Tengu
Superior Ninja
Superior Ninja


Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 687
Location: Germany
Gamertag: GalaxySpider PSN: GalaxySpider

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In NG2 I cant see offscreen projectiles. In NGS2 I can see throws since enmies have to come close and ON-screen to grab Ryu. A little difference. The (offscreen! I think I have to repeat this unfair fact) spaming was just pointless and not fun. Going for a DS Izuna? Prey to god your are not getting hit by one of the countless bombs and nukes....and relying on "luck" is skill? Not really.
NG2s enemy design was broken (you quoted me wrong) and many people complained about it (basically the same amount of people who complained about the missing gore in Sigma 2). It was unfair at almost every point and "balancing" was something Itagaki never heard about during the development of NG2.
In NG1 it was ok, in NG2 they overdid it. If people prefer it NG2 style, fine. Neverthless it's not balanced at all. The instant death grabs in SIGMA 2 may be the same, but at least I can say "I messed it up", not "damn, the game hates me".

And what do you exactly mean by "veterans". You mean 1000 from like XXXk people who played the game? TN doesn't care about them cauz you cant make money with just a handful of people. This is how gaming industry works. Sigma 2 and now NG3 are proof enough that the game was just not fun for the most players. It may be fun and balanced for people who play the hell out of this game, I agree with that, but what's with all the other players who bought the game. After my MN run, I only played on Warrior difficulty, when I was in the mood for IS spamming and NG.


I'm pretty aware of the look of NG games. My favourite series on consoles is the Dead or Alive franchise (and I'm pretty good in these games), so yeah, I now how TN ticks. And without the simple designed characters, TN could never make a BEMU engine with such detailed and huge environments.
But the fact is that TN always made the NG characters more realistic and detailed, not that much anime-ish (except for the girls)...if this word even exists (unlike the DOA models, but heh, a soild framerate is important for a BEMU otherwise it will fail as a game of this genre, so TN had more than just one reason designing their game like it is right now).

And no, I dont prefer graphics over gameplay. Otherwise I would play God of War instead of NG. It's about the gameplay. But just because I love NGs gameplay doesn't mean I HAVE to like evertyhing I see during the game. NG1 had supreme graphics on the Xbox, same with DOA2 on Dreamcast and DOA Ultimate on Xbox. So what went wrong with NG2 now? Sacrifising the quality for quantity a.k.a hundreds of nuke spamming enemies to proof that a game is just not fun to play it that way? To be honest, I expected more.

Oh and btw, there are gameplayvideos with a direct comparison of both games, showing the differences. And your links are death. btw.
"Some more bumps, more polys, better lighting". Well yes, that is what devs are usually making when they do a remake, right? I dont see anything wrong. I only see that Sigma 2 looks like NG2 should have been since release. And I dont know Gameswire. Googled the pictures cauz I know how both games look in motion. The differences are little, but it's not just one difference. You have many things TN looked into, forming a good looking NG game which plays like a NG game.

Quote:
Mate, your point here fails hard because you are comparing a game model that looks "next gen" vs. a model from a game that plays next-gen. Big difference there, so nuff said.


LOL; When I played NG2 I had the feeling of playing a BETA who needs fixing and bugtesting at many points ^^
More like "old-next-something-between-gen". But yeah. Each to their own.

Quote:
In closing, if it makes you feel any better, Ayane's Sigma 2 DLC costume is pure hawtness. NG2 Ayane was er...different. They must have been going for a mature look, which imo failed with Ayane fans everywhere. Don't know what they were thinking with her redesign in Sigma 1 either.


god, dont remind me on this. If there is ONE really good reason for me to bring back decaps etc then it's for this guy who came up with Ayanes design concepts in both games Laughing


So, enough from my side. I do understand your points and I guess you can understand mine as well. But Sigma 2 plays more like classic NG, and it looks good at the same time (for a TN game). A perfect 100 hit combo Smile
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mohsin117
Head Ninja
Head Ninja


Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 897
Location: UK
Gamertag: mohsin117 PSN: mohsin117

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://uk.playstatio...Ninja-Gaiden-3/

Team Ninja head Yosuke Hayashi answers questions from the PlayStation Community at gamescom 2011 on the upcoming Ninja Gaiden 3 on PS3.

What is the biggest difference between Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3? (European_Gamer)
We've introduced a new concept for Ninja Gaiden 3 - the Japanese dark hero. In the past the game was focused on killing the enemy and instead now you concentrate on killing other human beings. This means that the main character Ryu Hayabusa has to face up to the fact that he is killing humans, and karma plays an important role in this.

Will it be a full game or will it come in instalments? (Player00X)
It will be a full game.

Have you decreased the difficulty of the game and will we be able to play several characters in single player? (PGM74)
We didn't want to disappoint all the Ninja Gaiden fans, so the game is still kind of difficult. Having said that, the concept of the Japanese dark hero means that you can choose the difficulty and the style of gameplay you want to use. So you can play as a hardcore Ninja Gaiden player and fight a lot, or you can focus on the storyline - of course you still have to fight, it's just that in this case the game is a bit easier.

In the single player story mode, you can only play as Ryu because he is the main character and the game focuses on the problems he faces with karma and killing people, and this is very important to the story.

There will also be online multiplayer with versus and co-op modes and in those you can choose from more characters, as well as playing around with lots of customisation options.

What will be the main contribution of using PlayStation Move motion controller in the game as opposed to the wireless controller? (Darkjedi2048)
The game can be played with PlayStation Move as well as the wireless controller. While hardcore Ninja Gaiden fans will have fun with the wireless controller, the casual player will have the opportunity to use PS Move to do the full action movements and have fun in another way.

Why did you choose to set the game in London? (Bearskopff)
Ryu's number one rival in the game is the Alchemist and when we thought about what would be the typical place for this character to come from, we came up with London. Bear in mind though that this is just the beginning...

Will fans be able to come up with our own trophy for the game? Also, I'd like to know what Ryu screams at the end of Ninja Gaiden Sigma when he fights the Vigoorian Empire in its final form. (Blackxino)
We are always interested in hearing from the fans and receiving feedback; we'd definitely like to hear any good ideas for trophies. Right now the game is still in progress, so if there's a chance to have a beta we'd like to get those ideas.

As for what Ryu says at the end of Ninja Gaiden Sigma, he is using some words that are from the old tradition of Japan and are used to get rid of demons. Those words are also used now for example in temples and shrines.

Will there be a Ninja Gaiden game on PlayStation Vita? (chrisdenimes)
We've received a PlayStation Vita system and are thinking about it. Having said that, right now we're focused on Ninja Gaiden 3 for PS3, and after that's complete we'll start to look at ideas such as bringing out Ninja Gaiden on PS Vita because of course we'd like to expand the series.

Thank you to Hayashi-san for taking the time out from his busy schedules to answer your questions. Head over to PlayStation.Blog at blog.eu.playstationcom to read an in-depth interview with Hayashi on the game, and look out for more details on Ninja Gaiden 3 on eu.playstation.com ahead of the game's release in 2012.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
mohsin117
Head Ninja
Head Ninja


Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 897
Location: UK
Gamertag: mohsin117 PSN: mohsin117

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why has the NG3 poster got a THQ logo on it for?


NG3 THQ by mohsin117, on Flickr
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Female Tengu
Superior Ninja
Superior Ninja


Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 687
Location: Germany
Gamertag: GalaxySpider PSN: GalaxySpider

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm, maybe a publisher?

That pic is awesome btw xD It shows Hayashi and his new child, NG3 on a poster. And your arrow marks a small emblem in the corner. The situation is just LOL
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
neoryu
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 107



PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Female Tengu wrote:
In NG2 I cant see offscreen projectiles. In NGS2 I can see throws since enmies have to come close and ON-screen to grab Ryu. A little difference. The (offscreen! I think I have to repeat this unfair fact) spaming was just pointless and not fun. Going for a DS Izuna? Prey to god your are not getting hit by one of the countless bombs and nukes....and relying on "luck" is skill? Not really.


Mate, it truly sounds like you simply never really got to grips with NG2's combat at all. I could post videos of people totally freeforming Master Ninja's "bombs and nukes" with an original life bar!! Do you know who a player named Kumarab is? He is just one of many veterans ninjas who prove my point about NG2 being destroyed by skillful play. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm showing you that people out there have a real basis for disagreeing, which comes from personal experience.

As I said before, NG1 and all of its remakes are slower paced and more methodical. If the MN difficulty setting is too hard for some gamers, but still can be destroyed by the most elite gamers out there, then I think that Team Ninja did their job. Everyone isn't meant to be able to finish MN. NGB was no different when it comes to that idea, since Itagaki estimated that only 10% of NG players should be able to beat NGB on MN.

Sure, he may have been proved wrong about that, but the fact that he said it proves he wanted NGB MN to be nearly impossible for the average gamer to complete. Neither NGB or NG2 is even close to being impossible to beat skillfully on MN. A measure of skill is defined differently in both of these two games because both games are DIFFERENT. They are standalone. NG2 isn't NG1.5. It is its own game.

I judge it based on what I can do, just as you judge it based on what you are able to handle. NG2 is not broken to me, but it is to you. That's ok. We both have strong opinions to the contrary.

Female Tengu wrote:
NG2s enemy design was broken and many people complained about it (basically the same amount of people who complained about the missing gore in Sigma 2). It was unfair at almost every point and "balancing" was something Itagaki never heard about during the development of NG2.


Sometimes people tend to complain and project the blame elsewhere when things don't go their way. Many people who bvtch about NG2 did that. Many people who whined about NG1 and NGB ALSO did that. So many people in my city took NG1 back and returned it in 2004. It was sad to see this happen right before my eyes.

People don't like to accept failure or work on why they failed. They work on their excuses. Nowadays, gamers are much more apt to whine about a difficult challenge put in front of them. They will throw out words like "cheap" and "broken" EVERY time they fail. This is why games are so dumbed down these days. Companies know that hard games don't sell.

I'm not saying NG2 didn't have a few issues that could've used some more thought. I pointed them out earlier (instant IS detonation on wall/floor contact). We just need to be fair and not just condemn things we have trouble with. NGS2 had projectiles that could kill you in 1 hit on MN. Just because I can avoid it due to the emptiness in the levels does not mean it isn't questionable design to include OHKs.

I can easily say that NGS2's one hit kills were "broken" and unbalanced too. I mean, the whole game is easy as hell. Then suddenly, just on MN only, there is this stupid damage multiplier that allows for you to die from one grab or projectile fireball hit. Lol, see... defining something as "broken" works both ways. NGS2 is the game with poor balancing.

On NG2, I can turn the tide of a battle around and leave enemies in a heap of bodyparts even after being stuck with many IS. Or, I can execute a good strategy for the encounter and take out projectile enemies before they even have a chance to overwhelm me with anything. In NGS2, I can see the grabs coming a mile away, since they are much slower to come out in NGS2 because of Hayashi's difficulty reduction. But I can get grabbed anyway due to the crap controller input lag. Yeah, this input lag has gotten me grabbed and killed by crap that usually never touches me. Am I fighting with the enemies or fighting with the console's bad programming?

Like I said, I just suck it up and play.

Female Tengu wrote:
In NG1 it was ok, in NG2 they overdid it. If people prefer it NG2 style, fine. Neverthless it's not balanced at all. The instant death grabs in SIGMA 2 may be the same, but at least I can say "I messed it up", not "damn, the game hates me".


Well, the game does hate us, Female Tengu. This is factual. Laughing

Before NG2's release, Itagaki said the violence in the game would be justified by just how much the enemy wants to kill Ryu at any cost. NG2 enemies are all desperate!! The Black Spider Clan should already know that an encounter with Ryu could be their last moment alive -- just consider what Ryu did in NG1 when he took out the Vigoorian Army and the fiends unleashed by the Dark Dragon Blade. The BSN clan had a few run ins with Ryu in part 1, so they know he is like walking death to them. They fight for their lives as much as the player does in the second game because they know how strong the Dragon Ninja is.

When a player gets good enough, fighting and destroying enemies like NG2's gives MUCH credibility to how "badass" the main character is. Playing a game like this with button mashable enemies would not do the same thing in my opinion. This concept is what worries me about NG3. MOVE controls are fully supported in NG3?? This indicates that the game *might* need to be dumbed down to something that neither of us would want. To Tecmo, money talks, gamers can walk.

Female Tengu wrote:
And what do you exactly mean by "veterans". You mean 1000 from like XXXk people who played the game? TN doesn't care about them cauz you cant make money with just a handful of people. This is how gaming industry works. Sigma 2 and now NG3 are proof enough that the game was just not fun for the most players. It may be fun and balanced for people who play the hell out of this game, I agree with that, but what's with all the other players who bought the game. After my MN run, I only played on Warrior difficulty, when I was in the mood for IS spamming and NG.


Tecmo would've put a "NG3 game" out regardless. They're looking to milk a cashcow like every other company is. Tecmo doesn't care who liked NG1 or NG2. Capcom doesn't care who liked DMC 1, 3, or 4. These corporations just want to make some cash. Itagaki's crew leaving was a big hit to Tecmo; their stock dipped tremendously right when he announced his lawsuit and quit. Tecmo is trying to survive, which the merger with Koei probably helped them do. They haven't produced a single top seller since Hayashi took over. They want money -- they don't care about the people who whine about MN or the few veterans players who don't. This should be clear with their NG3 focus by now.

In the end, Tecmo is not listening to either of us. They know that people like you and I will buy whatever NG they come out with and discuss what we thought later. They want the masses because they are a business.

Female Tengu wrote:
I'm pretty aware of the look of NG games. My favourite series on consoles is the Dead or Alive franchise (and I'm pretty good in these games), so yeah, I now how TN ticks. And without the simple designed characters, TN could never make a BEMU engine with such detailed and huge environments.
But the fact is that TN always made the NG characters more realistic and detailed, not that much anime-ish (except for the girls)...if this word even exists (unlike the DOA models, but heh, a soild framerate is important for a BEMU otherwise it will fail as a game of this genre, so TN had more than just one reason designing their game like it is right now).


I'm not sure what you mean here, but I will just agree with you. Razz

Female Tengu wrote:
And no, I dont prefer graphics over gameplay. Otherwise I would play God of War instead of NG. It's about the gameplay. But just because I love NGs gameplay doesn't mean I HAVE to like evertyhing I see during the game. NG1 had supreme graphics on the Xbox, same with DOA2 on Dreamcast and DOA Ultimate on Xbox. So what went wrong with NG2 now? Sacrifising the quality for quantity a.k.a hundreds of nuke spamming enemies to proof that a game is just not fun to play it that way? To be honest, I expected more after DOA4.


Again, you are dismissing the overall processing power it took to render all of those NG2 polygons, effects, enemies, and gore at the expense of judging it by how it looks next to those old TN games you're talking about. I still own my DOA 2 for Dreamcast. I got the Japanese limited edition copy. When I fire this game up next to NG2, the difference is profound. NG2 does not look nearly as bad as people preach. It's just venom a lot of people have against the game for being so "mean" to them. NG2 looks quite fine for a classic-era Team Ninja game. It's not trying to be a 30fps First person shooter.

Let's get this straight: DOA2 did not run in HD or upscale AT ALL. DOA Ultimate supported only 480P. NG1 had almost no color palette (just brown and green mostly), far less effective AA, and runs at just 480P like DOA Ultimate did. NG2 has a higher native res than those games you have praised over it (585P, which upscales to 720P vs 480P only), plus it also has waaayyyyy more processing going on compared to NG1/B/S versions. Praising a last gen game's visuals over NG2's is just bitterness imo. Let's take everything into consideration and try to be fair about it.

Again, I must reiterate that gameplay experience trumps all. My personal opinion is that NG2's graphics are more than sufficient enough for a day one Team Ninja fan like myself. I still play it now next to all of these so called PS3/X360 "graphical showcases" these websites talk about. We are free to disagree on our assessment of NG2's gameplay experience. It is great fun for me and terrible for you. Not much can be done about such varying opinions.

Female Tengu wrote:
Oh and btw, there are gameplayvideos with a direct comparison of both games, showing the differences. And your links are death. btw.



EDIT: The screenshot links are FIXED now. Thanks for the heads up, mate. Wink

Digital Foundry tries to do like-for-like comparisons as much as possible. The graphical difference in still shots is not anywhere near Gamewire's. Lol, where is Gameswire nowadays anyway?? Laughing

Gameplay videos do not necessarily reveal if the displays or hookups are the same or not. I have both games setup identically on the same display, so I just judge for myself. What I see in front of me trumps any screenshot.

Female Tengu wrote:
"Some more bumps, more polys, better lighting". Well yes, that is what devs are usually making when they do a remake, right? I dont see anything wrong. I only see that Sigma 2 looks like NG2 should have been since release. And I dont know Gameswire. I googled the pictures cauz I know how both games look in motion. The differences are little, but it's not just one difference. You have many things TN looked into, forming a good looking NG game.



No, Sigma 2 scales back NG2's frenetic, adrenaline pumping gameplay to a very large degree. This is crucial to the game's identity for me and many an NG veteran. It just isn't crucial for you. As I said, you preferred the gameplay to be sacrificed in ways that allow for "more detailed" image fidelity. That comes down to preference. I know it must be hard to believe, but some of us actually enjoyed NG2's hard edged excitement. You didn't and that is quite alright. Opinions vary.

Female Tengu wrote:
When I played NG2 I had the feeling of playing a BETA who needs fixing and bugtesting at many points ^^
More like "old-next-something-between-gen". But yeah. Each to their own.


Laughing Laughing
*sigh*

To each their own indeed.

Female Tengu wrote:
god, dont remind me on this. If there is ONE really good reason for me to bring back decaps etc then it's for this guy who came up with Ayanes design concepts in both games Laughing


Yeah, we should practice to see if Steel on Bone works on him. Twisted Evil Laughing

I'm sure we can agree on that.


Last edited by neoryu on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:15 pm; edited 10 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Primeval_Demon
Superior Ninja
Superior Ninja


Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 783



PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone tell me how THQ publishing effects anything other than dosh in their pockets? Unless they are planning some Devils third demo or something IDK.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neoryu
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 107



PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mohsin117 wrote:
why has the NG3 poster got a THQ logo on it for?



Lol, good question!!! Is it photoshopped somehow?? KoeiTecmo can sue, maybe? Laughing

Primeval_Demon wrote:
Can anyone tell me how THQ publishing effects anything other than dosh in their pockets? Unless they are planning some Devils third demo or something IDK.


THQ is funding Valhalla Game Studios for producing Devil's Third. Itagaki is directing the game with a core group of former top level Team Ninja members. This game was said to be "a 3rd person shooter with plentiful melee action and multiplayer."

Hmm...the footage they showed last year was underwhelming in my opinion. But that game isn't due out for a very long time. Gameplay might be off the charts awesome, or it could become a terrible experiment. Not much info exists on it right now since they are keeping their cards close to their chest on it.

The question is, why NG3 have a THQ logo on that poster. Wonder what's up with that.


Last edited by neoryu on Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shrykull
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 208



PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The game can be played with PlayStation Move as well as the wireless controller. While hardcore Ninja Gaiden fans will have fun with the wireless controller, the casual player will have the opportunity to use PS Move to do the full action movements and have fun in another way.


Yeah, I will stick to my controller, thanks Laughing

Quote:
We didn't want to disappoint all the Ninja Gaiden fans, so the game is still kind of difficult. Having said that, the concept of the Japanese dark hero means that you can choose the difficulty and the style of gameplay you want to use. So you can play as a hardcore Ninja Gaiden player and fight a lot, or you can focus on the storyline - of course you still have to fight, it's just that in this case the game is a bit easier.


So there will be sidepaths and optional areas and fights? It would be refreshing compared to the horrendous linearity of NG/S2, I just hope it won't be anything like "kill 120 enemies to get a Talisman of Rebirth"

As for the "kind of" difficulty, it doesn't really shows up on the demo so I won't trust them too much on that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CoolBlackKnight
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Ishtaros' Bed(She's kinky with that whip)


PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

* sips on Crown & coke *


.....
_________________
"I see you deny your brain its purpose... it yearns to think, but you hold it back."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
neoryu
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 107



PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mohsin117's threads are always full of interesting information, so it would be better if my discussion with Female Tengu came to a close in favor of that. I don't want to indirectly take the focus off of NG3 news and retread over old ground. It seems that nothing changes with strongly opinionated individuals and rightly so. Without disagreement, the world would be a very boring and uneventful place.

Tengu, you can respond if you like and however you want to. I will let you have the final reply, mate. We could go back and forth forever, so someone has to bring it to an end. Generally, it's good to read up on what's going on with NG after so long, since I had not been up to date at all on NG3's state of affairs. 'NGS2 vs NG2' is all this thread is turning into and there's no need to turn back the clock on that subject. It is a true exercise in futility. Wink

Discussing what is becoming of NG3 is what this board is for. This thread exists for that purpose, so I will abide by that and respect Mohsin's topic.

To Mohsin117: Sorry for unintentionally derailing your informative thread. The moral to the story is, sometimes things are a lot deeper than just what's on the surface.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Ninja Fortress Forum Index -> Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group