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NG3 at Gamescon
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Primeval_Demon
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sath wrote:
Dumbest excuse, even worse than his purple mist for NGS2.
If he is going to make excuses, atleast lie like a professional.

LMAO Sath XD You just ridiculed Hayashi of lying saying "he is hyping up the game with this surprise". Now you are saying its being unprofessional and complaining at this. But then you would have complained about him hyping up the game like you did last time XD

Lets be honest, you complained at NG2 for being broken. Sigma 2 fixed faults with the game (sure it had it's own faults) but it met my expectations of what NG2 should have been. Then you complained there was no blood, now its here. You complained the game isn't "definitive" despite knowing full well Hayashi did the same thing with Sigma saying its "complete". I knew what to expect = NG2 with extra chapters, playable characters and modes. I expected some downgrades because thats exactly what happened with the complete Sigma. What you guys were expecting I have no idea. You knew how NG2 played so the core gameplay wouldn't have turned out that different.

Which brings me back to my original point. You complain about something you would have complained about anyway. What exactly do you want in this game?
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Female Tengu
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This lack of power full engine and time and money is not an excuse, if you buy a game and it slows down it crashes you get screen tarring and so on youíre not going to be happy with it, you donít think ďo well they were using and old engine so its okĒ what type of thinking is that?
Thereís no excuse especially after you actually already done it with NG2, and this is TecmoKoie not some indi developer, bloody Itagaki and his boys made an engine in 2 years and your telling me that TK the guys how have the most enemies on screen in game ever canít get an engine to run NG2 which is essentially already done but just needs a bit of help running smooth



NG1 original engine was based on Dead or Alive Xtreme 1. NG2 Engine was just an improved engine from NG1 with lack of shadows, colors etc. to even support so many enemies/explosions on the screen. NG2s engine was capable of showing good explosions/gfx, though.
For Sigma 1 they just merged the NGS and NG2 engine, BUT that doesn't mean it's a brand new engine. You still have to handle with the weaknesses of both, in the first place. NGS was the first NG with a real HD resolution @ 60fps. NG2 could never achieve this with all the limbs + enemies on screen. And yes, the resolution is a big thing for console games. That's why we will never see a game with 60fps on 1080p and most games are not even supporting 720p (only upscaled).

For Sigma 2 they improved the colors scheme + textures + a real HD resolution + the overall more action on screen than Sigma 1 had. OF COURSE you cant have +50 enemies on screen and limbs now with these improvements. The NG engine, no matter which you take, is already on its limits. And this is probably the reason why they still haven't showed anything about DOA5, cauz the DOA engine is outdated as well (but IMO the best BEMU engine). And after 5 years you just cant show a DOA4 upgrade in terms of graphics. TN knows that and perosnally I dont wanna see a DOA5 with a tiny better DOA4 engine.

To me NG3 looks pretty weak, cauz they're still using the same engine and...I'm not even suprised, cauz I just need to look at Sigma 2. Only improvements are Ryu, better charcater models and some high-res textures. The streets were empty, without any! details etc just to support all this stuff + 60fps. If they could improve it, NG3 would look much better. But they cant. Blame TN or blame the engine, I dont know. But looking at the graphics and TNs efforts on the improvements, I blame the engine.

TN is no indi style developer, right, but they are also not Capcom or Bandai Namco. Studios with much bigger teams and budget. TN only selling franchises are DOA and NG. And with a team of just +70 people or so you cant expect much from them.
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Sath
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Joined: 15 May 2008
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NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Primeval_Demon wrote:


Obviously you havent followed or understood anything I posted previously on NG3.
I wont bother writing again.
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Female Tengu
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh Sath...

remember the time when we posted about NGS2 on gamersyde? You were the first NG fan I've met there and thx to you I found this community here. Smile Even when Sigma 2 was out you were some kind of, well, happy. Despite all the things the game changed, you enjoyed it.
And now it looks like you are full of hate or anything like that. And not only about NG3...

Sad
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Sath
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NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Female Tengu wrote:
oh Sath...

remember the time when we posted about NGS2 on gamersyde? You were the first NG fan I've met there and thx to you I found this community here. Smile Even when Sigma 2 was out you were some kind of, well, happy. Despite all the things the game changed, you enjoyed it.
And now it looks like you are full of hate or anything like that. And not only about NG3...

Sad


The reason why I didnt bother alot for NGS2 was because I knew it was NG2+Extras + polish.
I was still pissed off that he removed gore because I loved it alot in NG2, so did the majority.

Remember when Hayashi said "if fans really want gore back we will bring it back in future NG but will have a reason to"?
Well, having tons of blood is back, but the core was decapitation+blood that made NG2 such an satistfying action melee action.
His excuse for removal is "we have already seen it, we dont need it anymore" LMAO, absolutely stupid reason.

But now in NG3, its Hayashi's full creation and he has removed so many great stuff and added nonsense that we have seen in other games, such as on-screen buttons and QTEs. The on-screen buttons may be removed but we are still forced to press a button based on what the game tell us to do compared to other NGs.

His excuses to why he removed them and/or added is just straight up annoying and doesnt make any sense for a NG game.
I had faith in Hayashi and NG3 but at this juncture and I feel betrayed as a fan, but at this point I have come to accept his nonsense.
I either take whatever this fool releases or I avoid, can't bother with it anymore.

Like I said before, I will get it for the only 2 reasons, just like I have 2 reasons for NG2 to play it.
But NG3 is definitely, at this juncture, not my top most wanted title, usually new NGs has always been that way.

Im not pissed anymore tbh, not worth to get worked up, just sad.
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Primeval_Demon
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My memory must be hazy. Its just I can specifically remember you saying that "Hayashi is a liar!". I asked you how he lied and you said "A surprise for NG FANS! Its supposed to be NG fans he hyped up the game and lied". That is what you said. Then Tengu said "just because they didn't meet the expectations of a particular user doesn't mean they lied". Perhaps you need a holiday or something Wink

Tengu what do you think of this game so far? Since you seem to be the only one not immediately bs-ing everything said XD Props to the others who are still willing to give it a chance despite being angry at no decaps. It can only get worse from here Razz

@ Sath you know man if you want we could always test it for you and then tell you if its good or bad Wink If you want. But really there is nothing new games can do anymore.
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Sath
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NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said he lied because of his NGS2 stuff when he said "we got a surprise long time NG fans in NGS2" and he gave us nothing!
Kasumi and a scarab image? lol okay.

I am still giving him chances all the way up to release day, I am just not expecting anything anymore.

And no Primeval, I will be getting it regardless, I told you my reasons.
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Female Tengu
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hm, what happens when you not press the button during a SoB event? The game tells you to hold down the button, and since it tells you to do it, it's not totally automatic, right?


@Prime
My expectations? I want a solid new NG game. I dont care if you can cut enemies in pieces. The first seconds from tge E3 trailer, I mean, how Ryu slices trough the body with his sword + the sounds, it looks at least as brutal as a OT from NG2/S2. Especially because of the slow motion close up. Soooo...

My only concern wad the gameplay cauz Hayashi said they wanted a NG everyone can enjoy. But god thx the core gameplay remained "old school".

I'll give this game a try. NG is one of my favourite games. I already know it wont be the best NG, but as long as it can entertain me I will play it.
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Primeval_Demon
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome news. I do think you will get over the initial shock of his claim as time goes on. You will be thanking him for telling the truth later rather than telling fibs and hyping up the game.

It will be good. You will see Wink

At least Hayashi researched what he is doing unlike Ninja Theory who don't even know how old DMC is. Seriously the least you could be is aware of its age or something. Why hire somebody when they don't even know when it came out?
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Sath
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NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Primeval_Demon wrote:
Awesome news. I do think you will get over the initial shock of his claim as time goes on. You will be thanking him for telling the truth later rather than telling fibs and hyping up the game.

It will be good. You will see Wink

At least Hayashi researched what he is doing unlike Ninja Theory who don't even know how old DMC is. Seriously the least you could be is aware of its age or something. Why hire somebody when they don't even know when it came out?


Oh trust me, I will buy it and I will spam all the stuff I seen so far, but I still dislike so much of it.
But whatever.

Yes, atleast NG is still NG and not "what the hell is this game?"

I will still get DmC though, that combat trailer looked nice.
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Saumon17
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everybody, I am new on this forum (french guy so sorry for my english) and happy to share with you about NG series. Smile

I would like to react on NG3. Of course we have seen a lot QTE during combat, and we don't like it... Evil BUT hayashi told the press this is the first level and it is kind of a training stage. I mean i think they will reconsider it because you can see a lot of bad press on it and also fans are not happy at all. And he used to listen a lot to TN's fans. Wink

That's why I trust them and also, we don't have seen much from the game yet. They have made improvments with the camera I like the way it comes close from him when sometimes he cuts bones, and this time it looks like we have a real story.

So even if I am a bit disappointed by graphics and some stuff I am still waiting for the TGS!

Moreover I was not that fan of decapitation in NG2 because most of the time when you wanted to make a combo with Y you just can't because of the OT. That's why I am happy they remove it.
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Sath
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NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Saumon17"Moreover I was not that fan of decapitation in NG2 because most of the time when you wanted to make a combo with Y you just can't because of the OT. That's why I am happy they remove it.[/quote]

And now you cant even consider a combo thanks to the random SoB to Y AND X, yeah best replacement Confused
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neoryu
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CoolBlackKnight wrote:
...Hayashi's about to make my eyes roll outta my head. Rolling Eyes

Hell... I'd take the "disappearing limbs" at this point, as long as my decaps were in. And on my 56" LED 1080p HDTV, the sub-HD still looked great to me, & anyone looking at it couldn't tell it wasn't 720p.

...Plus I was killing fiends so fast you didn't have time to notice, lol.


.....


Exactly right. The whole "sub-HD" this, "sub-HD" that argument is so 2007. It's a Sony fanboy talking point this gen and it's bred from sheer insecurity. NG2 looked amazing and has MUCH more going on technically compared to any other game in the series. Owning them all and approaching them without bias is a virtue.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder if certain people who talk about NG2 even played it at all. There is one person here in particular who seems to have clearly gleaned his NG2 experience from selectively chosen Youtube videos. Laughing It's time to stop pretending that the 360 version was so broken and unplayable. Of course it might be to someone who has no skills or resiliency, but the fact that people WANT the gore + the decapitation speaks for itself.

There is still no other game on the market that captures NG2's brutally visceral, precision based, frenetic action. NGS2 does not come anywhere close. Most of the game was CUT OUT of it, as it is a quite barren experience as a whole. One game is a genuine ninja adventure (NG2), while the other is a simply a game with a ninja in it (NGS2).
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neoryu
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MSX2 wrote:


As far as NG3 is concerned, I'm still on board. Put it this way, I didn't like NGII for a number of reasons, mainly the technical and odd design shortcomings and NGS2 salvaged that for me a bit.


What you consider a shortcoming is not in line with most veteran NG players sentiments. Just fyi.

MSX2 wrote:

NGII's and by extension, NGS2's slowdown issues were largely caused by vertex overdrawing.


No. There is more to the story than that and you know it. Wink

NGII has a lot more going on at any given time than NGS2. Contrary to your claim about NG2 having an "unplayable" frame rate; frame analysis proves that both NG2 and NGS2 run at 49.5fps on average. NGS2 runs at a slower gameplay speed than NG2 across the board. There are still slowdowns in NGS2 even considering how the meaty bits of flesh are gone, the severed appendages disappear instantly, the blood transparency effects are far less copious, and the AI change when an enemy is delimbed is reduced by the lowered damage Ryu causes to each enemy. Inexcusable stuff for a game that came out 16 months later.

MSX2 wrote:

Though I'm curious, would any of you mind having heads or limbs vanish over time ala NG1 or GOW? That's one way around that.


So you condemn DmC, a game you haven't played at all yet, while praising NG3 for taking so many obvious steps backward. Interestingly transparent there, mate. The simple fact is, they should be building on the stuff that people want. Giving us a poor excuse again is not going to fly. They said they took out NGS2's gore because they wanted a "cooler, cleaner, sleeker" look. That was BS, just like their claim that people don't want to see dismemberment is. When you make a game about a ninja slicing through people, neither purple mist OR bodies staying intact should fly this generation.
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neoryu
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mohsin117 wrote:

There was slowdown in NG2 which was not good but at least you could say itís because all the blood and decapitation and limbs lying around and all the enemies on screen, but then they got rid of it all in NGS2 and there was still slowdown granted it wasnít as much but there was no excuse for it in NGS2, and seriously how much slowdown was there in NG2/S2? Guaranteed slowdown on the stairs to the chamber of sacrifice and thatís really the only place I remember getting slowdown


That is correct. Unless the player runs around like an idiot pooling enemies together through an entire stage, NG2's slowdown primarily exists only in Chapter 10's staircase fight. This fight somehow still ended up being a memorable fight in the game and series. Quite a feat. The overall game runs at a blistering pace compared to Sigma 2. That is a fact that anyone who has them running side by side can attest to. Sigma 2 seems to have been slowed down across the board in order to keep things "more stable" lol. Both games have moments where the action reveals some hardware stress.


mohsin117 wrote:
And just because decapitation causes slow down doesnít mean you just get rid of it, you fix it, I donít understand that thinking ďitís not working as well as it should so letís just get rid of the whole thingĒ
And itís not like the decapitation was bad so if you get rid of it people wonít care, and we all know that the biggest complaint of NGS2 from people was the lack of blood and disappearing limbs


I agree. The thing people complained about at first glance with NGS2 was the disappearing limbs and lack of gore. The purple mist evaporates instantly, unlike those blood geysers that stained the NG2 environments. The fact is, that stuff was processor intensive and if the PS3 version could have been a straight port with all of that intact, then I believe that's what they would have done.

Were core Sigma 2 changes due to hardware limitations or "design choices"?? We'll need to use our own judgment based on how this gen has played out for 5 years in order to find the true answer. Bias can keep people in denial either way tho. Digital Foundry's Face Off touched on both versions being tailored to each console's strengths. The unfortunate fact is, one version's differences affect the gameplay moreso depending on user preference.


Last edited by neoryu on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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