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NG3 Hands-on Impressions
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BlackNinja9
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Figure I'd stir some chaos to get this forum going again. Twisted Evil

Ok...I hear ALOT of talk about how Ryu is human. Correct me if I'm wrong, because Team Ninja has as many plotholes as a Connect Four game (most fighting games for that matter look at Tekken or Street Fighter-THE KING OF RETCONS sf1, sf0/alpha, sf2, sf4, sf3) Rolling Eyes ,sorry getting off topic. Laughing

The Dragon Lineage is a direct descendant from the 12, or is it 13, dragons right? That being said isn't the Dragon lineage a physical/human representation of the dragons? Or dragon in "human form" in lamen's terms.

We don't know much about Ryu's mother, c'mon Team Ninja elaborate Confused , but Murai is his maternal uncle (mother's brother). Maybe Ryu's parents married on some Romeo and Juliet stuff to quell so long standing rivalry Cool . Which would explain why Murai got along with Ryu and not his father...Wait, no he didn't Mad .

So far the Shadow Clan is M.I.A. if Ryu's mother was from the Shadow clan I doubt she'd give the okay for Ryu to wipe out her, I mean his family Shocked . But that's if she was a member of the Shadow clan. Yet another magical plot hole from Team Ninja Confused .

Ok, Ryu get's his dragon lineage from his father and whatever from his mom. Also Doku mentioned that Ryu's clan also has a connection to the fiends/demons or whatever. And...he also DIED in the first game.

Put together that makes him 1/4 human, 1/4 dragon, 1/4 fiend, 1/4 Hayabusa spirit. So what is the Ryu is human crap I keep hearing. Shocked
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Female Tengu
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He died? I always thought Doku just injured him.

His job wasn't exactly to kill Ryu ;)Hm, some games have their own version of the creation of humans. Kinda like the "Halo" games and the race of the Forerunners. Bungie, the makers of the game, have a "Halo Bible" which includes their own sci-fi version of the creation of life in the universe. Ninja Gaiden is no exception, as you figured out, and Ryu Hayabusa lives in a world created by Dragons ^^


Back to Ryu.

He is human, but has the blood of the DL in his veins, which makes him more powerful than any other "normal" human/ninja. Ryus Clan is basically the exact opposite of the Black Spider clan and their evil spirits, which makes them "uber" humans as well. They even worked together with the demons in NG2.

You can compare them like that, I guess:

Dragon Lineage Clan = Good = Light = Gods
Black Spider Clan = Evil = Shadow = Demons


The connection you are talking about is the main thing why the "evil" in the world of NG exists. If I'm right, one of the dragons (the dark dragon) was once good but abandoned the, yeah, the other the dragons, lol.
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BlackNinja9
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good stuff Female Tengu. I see you've made an attempt to sift through all the crap that Team Ninja calls a story. Although I should go easy on them as it's a better story than most other games.

Yeah Doku killed him. In the movie scene Ryu is killed at night, then it flashes forward to the morning and we clearly see a burnt and decaying body laying lifeless in the same spot. Though I can't get mad at you for not catching it. Team Ninja didn't really come out and say "HEY!!! Ryu just died!!" Laughing

Also though you can clearly "see" that the Black Spider Clan is evil, as of course you have to have a "bad guy" duh Laughing . They really aren't "evil." Genshin said it best: "There is no good or evil for the ninja." Now I'm not saying that there isn't a clearly designed good guy or bad guy, in fact your chart pretty much summed it up.

But what Genshin really meant was that there is good "and" evil in all of us. Yin/Yang, two sides to the same, balance. Ryu's father Joe said that "Evil is a path chosen by the weak" thus acknowledging that both sides in each person but saying that the weak allows the evil to control him.

Suffice it to say a Ninja willingly accepts the evil and the good but strives everyday to control that evil. Realizing the greatest enemy is not the person in front of you but the person in the reflection. Just maaaayybbeee....and this is a BIG maaaayyyybbbeee, this is what Hayashi is trying to explain.

Team Ninja catch up. For awhile Final Fantasy held the crown for story telling (FF7 is still my favorite having a hard time picking a team in dead fantasy 6 with Ryu+Hayate vs Vincent+Cloud), but many games have not only caught up but surpassed SquareEnix's story telling.
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Female Tengu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackNinja9 wrote:
Good stuff Female Tengu. I see you've made an attempt to sift through all the crap that Team Ninja calls a story. Although I should go easy on them as it's a better story than most other games.



Ehrm. Thx? xD

To me the actual NG story is basically non existent. It's a weak story of some evil guy trying to rule the world with an even more eeeeeeeevil weapon (NG1). And NG2 was the same, for the most parts. Boring stuff, if you ask me.

Like in most games, the background informations are the most interesting facts. But what's the point of creating "a world" if you hide all that stuff in form of idiotic in-game items (books, diaries etc.) or during loading screens? Waste of time.
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BlackNinja9
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. Cutscenes is where games like Metal Gear Solid shine. True so times it can get talk heavy, or text heavy as we used to say back in the FF7 on PS1 days before cutscenes, but I often watch the cutscenes in MGS more than I play the actual game itself. I've actually seen people come to tears due to the emotion of those scenes. My cousin's girlfriend broke down crying hysterically at the FF10 ending.

C'mon Team Ninja step it up.
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, I don't read most of the "information" you found here and there in NG actually. I lked the diaries of the Black Spider Ninja though, made them more sympathetic.

The challenge in NGIII will be to pull off a decent story based on the nonsense of the two previous games… or to try and ignore that nonsense. The idea of suddenly making the current series a prequel of the NES series may not be that good: for example, both Demon Statues are lost or destroyed at the end of the first two Xbox games… so how could Ryu chase them (and not even know about them!) in the first NES game?

Ryu's father's name is different too… amongst other things.
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A "gameplay analysis" of the demo. Doesn't teach us much but it describes the SoB mechanism a tad bit more precisely. We learn also more about the stealth option and the combos. Seems the slide move can be used to add some depth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bWjJqdXo6o

Some remarks are mere guesses though.

I just noticed but the UT charge can be interrupted by attacks (9:47). This is a good point cause the uninterrupted charge was what made UTs so much of a game breaker in NG/S2 (that, and the 2 second full charge). Then again, when your arm glows you can trigger it instantly so unless you're really careless…

I also noticed several enemies die without SoB (with aerial combos mostly).
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Female Tengu
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you can trigger the SoB after the the first encounter of new enemies? Triangle and square or what he said, lol?
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it says that when you've done SoB once on a given type of enemy, the QTE buttons cease to appear for other enemies of the same type. Razz
The instant SoB at the beginning of the vid seem to be because these enemies are the equivalent of brown ninjas…
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know but they also said something about a button combo or so and triggering the SoB. Confusing...
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thoughtspeak
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(ive reposted this alot of places so if you have seen it already, i apologise)

hi guys, I got to spend a lot of time with NG3 at the eurogamer expo yesterday and I think I have a pretty good idea of what the game will have to offer, based on this build. Im sure some things will change others I think will stay the same. Here Is a breakdown of my impressions.

Before I start, this is going to be a very long post so ill give a short version for people who don’t want to read much.

Combatwise, If you are casual player, and have only really been interested in NG because it’s a badass ninja that kills things you shouldn’t really have a reason for concern. While NG3 is definitely easier than previous entries, there is enough familiar things in the game to keep you happy.


People who are serious about the series and have beat the previous entries on anything higher than the basic difficulties there are a lot more causes for concern.

Movement.
Ryu still can move in the same way that he always has, he is fast and has the majority of his old traversal mechanics, even for some strange reason, the flying bird flip. The main addition as you may know by now is the slide. It is performed in the exact same way the dodge/ roll was performed in the previous entries (left trigger/L2 and direction) It can stun an enemy and can be cancelled into a jump so the dash, Jump, dash or roll,jump, roll can still be done. The windmill slash is also there (when ryu gets up from a roll and slashes) but the timing is iffy and doesn’t always work.
You can still wall run to certain extent but again, the demo doesn’t really have many areas to test this on and it seems to have different properties. It doesn’t seem you can Flying stab from it.
Wind path (stepping on enemies head ) and wind run (x+y) are still present and are mostly unchanged.

Combos
Ignoring the SOB for a moment, The demo had the same amount of combos available as a level 2 dragon sword Moves like blade of nirriti ( x, y, x,x,x,x ) and Fang of the Wolf (x,x, y,y) were present and counted for
As well as the isunza drop. (x,y, x,x,x y) The timing felt a lot more lose than in previous entries , the margin for error seem to be increased dramatically. Outside of steel on bone, the combos seemed exactly the same if maybe a bit easier to perform.
Flying swallow/suplex/stab
The flying swallow is still here but it has now been changed to s cinemticatic stab/throw on connection. It seems to have lost a significant portion of its range and the multiple flying swallows are gone, at least for this stage of the game. In the rare times the grunts put up their guard, it can be blocked. The tool however is still there and can still be used for spacing and working around any errant camera problems.
It also can be cancelled into in all the way of the previous games (after a wind run, wind path, jump etc)



SOB/OT/UT

Ok, down to the meaty stuff. The steel on bone is a cinematic attack that has been the selling point of hayashi’s new direction. It occurs randomly, midcombo and there doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to it apart from possibly it only engages once an enemy gets to a certain point in health. The good news is it can be avoided as much as possible by using air moves like blade of nirriti, flying swallow and a new combo that seems to be performed by jumping at the enemy, (x, y,x ,y,y) or something to that effect. Ryu basically attacks the enemy in the similar way to how the Black spider ninjas used to rush you in NG black/sigma , spinning in the air like a helicopter blade. It is topped off with a double flying swallow that look like the Annihilating Gleam UT from NG2 (360+Y after max charge)
You may even be able to launch enemies and simply shrunken cancel them too, but Im not that good to try anything like that.

The worst thing about steel on bone is it doesn’t kill enemies on the higher difficulties, they can still stumble around and while none attacked me in the demo after a SOB, its possible. You still need to finish them off.
Different combos seem to have a different steel on bone and it doesn’t seem enemy specific at all.

One thing to note about the button prompt. Most of the time, it doesn’t matter what button you press during a SOB, both attack buttons will make the animation go through. The only time it matter is if the enemy “resists” it, Which is not at all often.

OT:
Yes, believe it or not, OT’s are still in this game. Once you have SOBed aenemy or have Izuna dropped one, you can finish them off using a OT. They work the same as in NG2 and there is little cosmetic change really except the obvious decapitation ones are missing.

UT:
Once you have killed about 2 or more enemies by UT or SOB, your arm glows red and you can perform a UT. It is a teleport move where ryu takes out 3 enemies. At times it seemed like it take out the enemies with the most health/untouched/most dangerous at others it seemed to be any 3 random grunts. A thing to note here is you cannot charge it, If you hold down the Y button, Ryu will do the old UT animation but nothing will happen. On landings still work, but like the isuna drop and almost everything else, the timing seems a lot easier. To be honest, its abit pointless to do an onlanding without stacked essence anyway.

Enemies:
The enemies in NG3 suck. I mean really fvck suck. The A.I is a joke even on hard. They rarely block (even the special ops that have fvck riot shields) They do however share some of the moves of the combat Ninjas from NGB, they have grab that they almost never use and a stab that does extra damage. But they are basically cannon fodder.
At this point id like to ask a question was was the single most annoying enemy in NG2? The one that made people give up on the game halfway through even on normal?(NB: IS ninjas come late in the game on normal)
Yes you guess it, the rocket fvck are back. The single guys are easy as pie to deal with but somehow Hayashi has found the single cheapest thing in NG2 and made it worse. The Multiple rocket Ninjas (well these guys are far from ninjas but you know what I mean) are back. And the rockets are FASTER. Their inclusion alone should signal to NG players that the harder difficulties won’t be balanced and fair, just filled with cheap stuff. They aren’t really a problem in the demo though because they spawn one at a time occasionally but im not looking forward to fighting multiples of them at once.

Nippo:
Oh fvck hell, the thing by far that was my biggest gripe with the game. Nippo has been changed dramatically in this game. It is now a move that you only can use once at a time and have to build meter by killing enemies to do so. something in the region of 20 kills in hard mode if not more. As soon as your Nippo meter is full you get an incessant prompt to use it. Once used a scripted cinematic happens and the dragon you channel from your hands kills a few guys. Why I hate it is as soon as you use it, all the grunts lose the will to fight and fall on their ass begging fo you to spare them. You cant just kill everyone the normal way and not use the nippo, you have to use it to get to next area, the enemies keep respawning otherwise.
To be honest, I was fine with the respawning and at one point just kept killing guys until I was bored. It gave the game a bloody palace/survival mode vibe to it and hope its something that finds itself in the retail version. My record of kills before I died was 157.
With the changes to nippo in mind, don’t be surprised if it becomes something you can’t use in boss fights or if you can it becomes a finisher similar to god of war.

Stealth:
Can be ignored entirely. Don’t worry about it.

Boss:
pitfully easy even on hard. Nothing really to report that you cant see in videos.

Wall climb:
Counter-intuitive and fvck crap. Even worse to play than what it looks like.

Performance:
Holy crap. Wasn’t the lack of decapitations supposed be to make sure the game ran smoothly? NG3 has the most framerate drops I have ever seen in a Ninja gaiden game, outside of the staircase fight in NG2. At most there are about 5 grunts on screen as well as Ryu, but once you take into all the blood and lighting effects from the New UT, the framerate Chugs down to about 20Fps. Granted, this was only in the area that I was letting enemies continuously respawn but It was amazing to see that this got past QA. And yes, even without that, performance seemed noticeable worse on 360 than it did on PS3.

There are a couple other things ive forgotten but that’s the majority of it in a nutshell. From what I have played, it seems like the game is running on NG2 engine and hayashi hasn’t refined a damn thing about it. Instead he has just dumped his stink on top of it and lowered the precision that made the game so good in the first place.

That said, it was actually quite fun and is still a serviceable NG game to a point. Id call this the DMC4 of the NG series which is still head and shoulders above 90% of action games today.

Definitely give it a try, but just keep your expectations low and returning fans should wait till it is on sale at a reduced price.

EDIT: one last thing...that guy in the consequence trailer? You have to kill him, there is no way to let him live.
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CoolBlackKnight
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this is true(and I have no reason to doubt my fellow ninja thoughtspeak here), Hayashi is officially a idiot in my book for ruining such a great series with such poor choices/decisions/additions/subtractions.

Maybe still better than the average action game overall, but THIS is below a Ninja Gaiden title to me.




...F'n Hayashi. Mad


.....
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, at least I know I'll take it on PS3 now Razz Since the framerate drops seem absent from what I've seen.

And DMC4 was much more fun than DMC3 to me >___<
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thoughtspeak
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shrykull wrote:
OK, at least I know I'll take it on PS3 now Razz Since the framerate drops seem absent from what I've seen.

And DMC4 was much more fun than DMC3 to me >___<


The framerate drops didn't happen until I started letting the enemys respawn before the scripted ninpo. It happened on both versions of the demo, 360 was just worse.
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Female Tengu
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since its a tutorial level, most enemies are just easy and the ninpo script seems to be full purpose (tutorial). So yeah, explains why you cant end this fight without using ninpo.

And my expectation is still high cauz I dont say "Hayashi sucks" all the time....

CoolBlackKnight wrote:


Maybe still better than the average action game overall, but THIS is below a Ninja Gaiden title to me.




...F'n Hayashi. Mad

.....


So you just want a NG2 with a "3" at the end?

The game still plays like a NG, looks like a NG and feels like a NG (cant see a big difference by watching gameplay videos). What do you want? The same old crap from the past 5 years? Like all the COD titles (I personally cant see anymore)? Oh great. Some choices are strange (weapons in story mode), but the rest looks more interesting, at least to me, than any gameplay video or trailer from NG2.
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