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E3 trailer And Gameplay.
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NinjaInDisguise
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CONFIRMED, the QTE are Tutiorial. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phgSuWSYwA4 In the beginning of video, the guy says the QTE are gonna go away. Also, the guy pretty much explained why there will NOT be any Decapitiations
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CoolBlackKnight
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinjaInDisguise wrote:
CONFIRMED, the QTE are Tutiorial. In the beginning of video, the guy says the QTE are gonna go away. Also, the guy pretty much explained why there will NOT be any Decapitiations



Yeah, I remember hearing that... And IMO, that's a str8 BS excuse.

I'll quote a fellow gamer that had a well spoken thought-rebuttal about TN's reason for no decaps:

Quote:
qamefaqs |
Posted 6/9/2011 11:48:02 PM |
message detail |

If anything - it's more cartoony to not have dismemberment. And, actually, having less de-limbing/ decapitation moments is also more cartoony than having it happen all the time.

They're going with this whole "dismemberment is cartoony and unrealistic" BS excuse for the changes made to the game, hoping gullible gamers will fall for it.

The truth is - if you took a super ninja like Ryu and put him into a "realistic" combat scenario (against other flesh and bone opponents) with all of his scary sharp weaponry and all of his super speed/ strength slashes, stabs and maneuvers, well... heads (arms, hands, legs, feet, torsos, ears, noses and trouser snakes, etc, etc) are going to FLY, and with massive regularity!

To be "realistic" they'd have to go in the opposite direction that they're trying to go, and basically implement an extreme version of the Metal Gear Rising "free cutting" mechanic. But, obviously, that wouldn't really work well in a game like this or any game at this point in time because of the issues that they'd face with challenge/ difficulty creation and a bunch of other balancing problems that would pop up with something that dynamic.

Whenever I hear a developer try to go the "realism/ realistic" plugging route to explain away the removal of a feature they didn't like/ couldn't find a way to fit into a sequel- it's always a red flag for me. It basically lets me know right off the bat that they're either
1) really deluded and ignorant, or
2) that they're just pulling ridiculous excuses out of their ass (which they know damn well are bogus and make no sense whatsoever in the context of a nearly fully UNrealistic video game), then trying to pawn those excuses off as progressive purposeful changes in artistic direction.



...Couldn't have said it better myself.



I followed his comment with mine:

Quote:
A SUPER NINJA that "flies" downward some 15 to 20 stories, and perfectly land a flying swallow throw / kill on a ground soldier below, yeah... That's "realism" over the dismemberments Rolling Eyes




So they can just stop with that "realistic" BS talk right now... as far as I'm concerned.


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Sath
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So no decapitation?

wtf is this crap!?

First NGS2 and now NG3!
NGS2 didnt have gore but had decapitation...that dissapeared in thin air and no gore made it look extremely stupid.

Now NG3 has this steel-on-bone and we see tons of blood but no decapitation? is this idiot really this stupid?
This is hardly a japanese development in mind considering Itagaki added gore and decapitation in NG2 and now he is carrying over to Devil's Third.

And those realism is straight up nonsense!
No real ninja can pull off aerial combos and do a izuna drop, nor do birdflips as quick as Ryu, or pull off UTs that can teleport him across big gaps to kill enemies...etc.

With this game for me its a love and hate, but a bit leaning towards hate because I just cant believe what this guy is doing with the franchise.
I will still buy it because I am a big fan of the NG franchise in a overal aspect and love some of the animation moves he added, but still.

PS. The stupid Steel-on-bone is damn random! It can happen even during one of your combos, end of it, or even be the very first attack you do which makes no sense.
If you plan on making a combo towards a enemy you might as well stop doing that because you never know when the SOB will happen.
If we could like hold say, right trigger and press one of the attack buttons we can activate the SOB manually.

*sigh*

But the game has some cool moves that I really like, and if Hayashi adds something real awesome that I love, like say giving Ryu his traditional casual outfit we saw in the trailer were he was just standing without mask and scarf, as a outfit in gameplay, awesome!
I will forgive him if he adds solo Mission Mode...especially custom music support on PS3, I was in rage everytime I played NGS2 I couldnt play custom music with my epic orchestras nor have solo mission mode.

But the game is only 30% done and its not out until Q1 2012 so I am still have faith it might turn out a solid title.
But this decapitation really pissed me off considering when he said gore will be back its just natural to think decapitation will be there.

I LOVE that music in the trailer, the one that place right after the logo and the sword shows up, really great and I hope we hear alot of those type of tracks in the full game, reminded me of NG1.
Basically have that traditional oriental japanese ninja feeling.

My favorite tracks outside action tracks are Burn Away, Freeze Up, Vanished Memory from NG1, especially Burn Away http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rgfEdVEFbE so amazing!
Always get goosebumps from this track, to the point I always try to pick a oriental level in NG and pick a good traditional ninja outfit for Ryu.

If anything NG3 will deliver an amazing soundtrack because I love the composers to death since NG1.

Hayashi...custom music, if there is any good in you, add that to PS3!

Hopefully CyberEvil can ask him duringthat event or whatever he was going.
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Primeval_Demon
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good. I never cared for decapitation. If I wanted that type of thing I'd go and play God of Poor. I never got any sort of thrill from that type of thing.

The original NG and Dragon Sword never lost any type of thrill from the combat just because they didn't have decapitation. Heck Dragon Sword didn't even have blood.
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CoolBlackKnight
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Primeval_Demon wrote:
Good. I never cared for decapitation. If I wanted that type of thing I'd go and play God of Poor. I never got any sort of thrill from that type of thing.

The original NG and Dragon Sword never lost any type of thrill from the combat just because they didn't have decapitation.




To each to his own then, my friend. Cool


...And the original, nerfed UK version is what you must be speaking of(I suppose) of not having decaps... Because back in America, I remember decaps in my original NG for Xbox(and later on in NG B also)... And Itagaki loved his decaps:

Quote:
by Tom Bramwell

21/04/2004 @ 12:49

Microsoft UK has finally confirmed that the PAL version of Ninja Gaiden has been stripped of its gory decapitation routines, despite playing down reports to that effect earlier in the year.

Last month the company denied that any changes had been made, claiming that the game would be submitted to censors without any pre-emptive alterations, and that any changes would only be considered at their request. In their words: "minor changes may be made to ensure that the game satisfies ratings requirements in Europe."

Having spent some time with PAL review code, which Microsoft assures us is representative of the changes made to the European game, it's safe to say that the lack of decapitations isn't a massive problem, but it results in some less violently emphatic encounters with bloodthirsty enemies. In other words, it's a shame, but it's not the end of the world.

Interestingly, meanwhile, it appears that shurikens (throwing stars) have made it in to the European version of Ninja Gaiden, even if decapitations haven't, despite having been stripped from European versions of games as recent as Tenchu: Return From Darkness (also on Xbox).

Ninja Gaiden is due out in Europe on May 14th. You can read our review of the American version here, and trust that in the absence of decapitations, the version you can buy is still more than worthy of that score.

According to a spokesperson for Microsoft, Ninja Gaiden - sans decapitations - has earned a 16+ certificate from ratings body PEGI, whose website confirms the rating for most European countries (including Germany), with the exception of Finland, where it seems to be worthy of a 15.



...So yes, for me, it IS already missed - and replaced with this SoB crap(as you just can't replace that visceral, satisfying feeling of taking out a enemy ninja on low health with a sweet Flying Swallow, rather than with this stupid SoB gimmick throw of Hayashi's creation he's trying to justify with this change... (IMO of course).


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mohsin117
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that gamespot interview it sounded to me like them buttons will appear on screen all the time, but I have seen game paly where the buttons are missing and its very good to her that they are tutorials,
I really didnít mind then QT tutorials in DOA (I donít know if you can all them QTs cos they were not timed and you couldnít get them wrong, they were just tutorials) but there was no end to them in DOA they were there right to the end of the game,

Really not happy about the lack of decap, what the hell man with every step forward they seem to be taking two steps back, and it not being realistic is the stupidest excuse ever,

He says they donít want the enemies to be cannon fodder, but the enemies dyeing little after being attacked makes them seem more like cannon fodder then the NG2/S2 after being attacked you couldnít just forget about them they still came after you, you had to pay attention to them, the NG2/S2 enemies had way more dimensions to them ďcannon fodderĒ

And you want to add and emotions side to the killing, I canít think off anything more fitting than cutting off a guyís limb and watching trying to get away but you still go after the guy and finish him, and then if latter on in the game we get enemies like the Black Spider who after having limbs being cut off still come after you

Im really not getting this lack of decapitation, youíd think it would go really well with SoB, completely forcing the sword through and cutting off the torso, and the game is going to be and certified 18 it already is, so im not getting why there leaving it out
Seriously one step forward two steps back

So its sounding like there will be other weapons in game but most likely all swords and few in number,

They really got to fix the UT, Ryu releases the UT no were near an enemy and jumps between 3 enemies who were like mile apart from each other

The Revanent of the Mask that guy going to be the main villain of the game, no way is he dead, and I like that Ryu fight him so early in the game, in NG 1 Ryu fought Muri and Doku at the beginning of the game and in NG he fought Genshin early on
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vspectra wrote:


If that's how people enjoy playing the game, then there's nothing pointless about it. It practically shows the depth of Ninja Gaiden's combat engine. It's not even a "feature" they had to work on, it's an exploit within the combat system that allows you to link combos strings, so I highly doubt much time was "wasted" on it during development. Itagaki saw people play this way in NG1 so he left it in NG2 because his reasoning is the game is open to how YOU want to play it.


Further developing a system based on a glitch requires lots of work and could force other glitches. You need completely new animations to not let this exploit look like an exploit etc.. And Itagaki never improved that system in later games, showing that he never was interested in juggling enemies to the other side of the level with +100 x combos, as well.

Dont get me wrong, but to me it's just pointless having this in a NG game. ^^

If TN ever decides, to create a NG game with focus on this, then it would be ok (and probably fit better, if you ask me).




And I have to laugh about comments like "I'll forgive him when blah blah even if NG3 has no dismemberment". Laughing If I would be a new member to this forums here, my first thought would be "what kind of strange people are registered here". C'mon guys Razz

Where are the times when NG1 had nearly nothing of this, and people still loved it because of the gameplay *sigh*

Why all of a sudden every other NG "needs" Question


To be honest, even Hayashis ideads behind all the SOB stuff is just lol. I mean, to me a videogame will always be a videogame. But he says "we wanted to let the player feel that your are not just fighting enemies in a vdeogame". Just lol. But heh, the gameplay looks ok to me. And if he want that dumb feature + the even more stupid explanations for NG3: fine. I dont care. Oh, and maybe Hayashi dont know but, I play without controller vibration, to save battery xD


So far I love the things he added. The new sliding, the FS throw etc. Looks really nice.
Quote:
Good. I never cared for decapitation. If I wanted that type of thing I'd go and play God of Poor. I never got any sort of thrill from that type of thing.

The original NG and Dragon Sword never lost any type of thrill from the combat just because they didn't have decapitation. Heck Dragon Sword didn't even have blood.


Oh, I'm not the only one. Thx god, Prime.
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Vueguy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After watching the gameplay a few more time, I don't mind if it has decapitation or not anymore like NG2.
Only thing we need is behead like every ninja always does, behead the enemy for the quickest kill.

Also a ninja doesn't cut his enemies to pieces like how Ryu does in NG2, that's so unrealistic like Hayashi himself said.

Threesome
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Sath
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And a ninja doesnt jump from a skyscraper and land with no damage.
A ninja doesnt do aerial attacks.
A ninja doesnt use magical ninpos
A ninja doesnt use skydiving/Batman outfit...etc.

Its alot of nonsense excuses.

Ryu's original design was, if a ninja can do something, Ryu does it 10x times better.
And decapitation IS realistic, this excuse is just pure garbage.

A katana should cut off limbs easily, its the bigger parts like torso that is hard. Has to go through thick muscles and multiple bones like the ribcage and chests...etc. that I understand for the SOB and thats awesome (if we can manually do it, which doesnt seem to be the case).

NG2 decapitation was so damn fantastic, that one truly feels like Ryu has no mercy for the threat coming at him, but no decapitation in NG3 is very stupid especially with the SOB animations.
And the way Ryu does the SOB moves there is no way in hell that the enemies would even limp on ground!
But with decapitation it makes sense to do so.

It was stupid in NGS2 to have purple mist coming out of the enemies for no reason but now he removed decapitation?

I had to deal with the crap in NGS2 and I was wishing for gore and decapitation in NG3 but then he pulls of this BS...again!

I have much more cons to NG3 so far than I have pros.


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Primeval_Demon
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sath wrote:
I have much more cons to NG3 so far than I have pros.


Ok man. Don't buy it then Razz

You want it ya know ya do Twisted Evil
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CoolBlackKnight
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vueguy wrote:
After watching the gameplay a few more time, I don't mind if it has decapitation or not anymore like NG2.
Only thing we need is behead like every ninja always does, behead the enemy for the quickest kill.

Also a ninja doesn't cut his enemies to pieces like how Ryu does in NG2, that's so unrealistic like Hayashi himself said.

Threesome



...You do realize how stu... Nevermind, I won't go there.


...I see Hayashi's BS has worked on you though, good grief. Rolling Eyes


....
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Last edited by CoolBlackKnight on Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sath
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Primeval_Demon wrote:
Sath wrote:
I have much more cons to NG3 so far than I have pros.


Ok man. Don't buy it then Razz

You want it ya know ya do Twisted Evil


I would buy it as a fan of the franchise for so long and this is the next time I will see Ryu again in a new title.
But that doesnt mean its the best one or I agree with many of its decisions by Hayashi...so far.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually there was a reason why purple mist was coming out from the BS ninjas. Sigma 2 explained it in that motion comic you can see during installation. The guys are not 100% human anymore. Demonic spirits consumed their souls and bodies (Obaba, Rasetsu, etc. ). Even later in the game, chapter 12 or so, their skin and voices are totally different from the guys you can see in chapter 1.
Ok, it wasn't a clear explanation for that mist, but at least it made more sense than having a crouching ninja dude, bleeding for hours and not having a single story clue why they can, well, "ignore" the pain.

Too bad NG2 or NGS2 never really focused on Ryus clan rivals....



IMO Hayasi goal is to focus the game on the combat itself, Ryu and his enemies (his statement in the video), but not the actual splatter and eye candy (takes away the focus). Or he simply doesn't like xtremly bloody games. Only speculations.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the decapitation and the blood or not, thatís personal preface,

But hereís the thing NG1 had little decapitation little blood, NGS2 increased it and it was welcomed by fans, in in NG2 it was taken further and gain how many people complained about, did we get threads and posts saying ďtake away the decapitations or I want buy the gameĒ

And there was no explanation for the mist in NGS2, Obaba being over taken by the fiends was something form NGDS but there was explanation of mist in there, and the finds in the original NG didnít have mist or even in NGS where the blood was increased, and letís not forget that it was Hayashi that increased the blood,
And what happened in NG2 they did all this blood and decapitations and lips not disappearing ad so on, but it was wrong? And they but it all right in NGS2 with the mist?

And the fined ninjas in NGS2 had darker blood and looked like it had bits in it, but in NGS2 the find ninjas and the human ninjas all had purple so if anything NG2 with the blood did a better job of defining them then NGS2,

Whichever way you look at it the mist in NGS2 was designed move, like the mist or not thereís no reason for it and to be honest there doesnít have to be a reason for it
And as though the mist didnít get in the way off the combat, and if the whole idea of the mist was to help NG with its story and its combat then why did Hayashi not add it in NGS, NG2 (with blood) is where the best combat came from, if the mist is such a good thing why is it not back for NG3

Im convinced theta the reason why there was mist in NGS2 was to make the game look different from NG2, and to get around publishing issues with MS,

I liked the mist, not happy about it replacing the blood, I really liked the effect that came from it too bad they didnít really do anything with it
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, as Hayashi said, in NG3 you will have more human enemies, and not just some random demons. I dont know if there is some kind of an demonic "infection" of new members to the clan or how they obtained these powers. As I said before, NG never faced the player with some background information about the BS clan....besides form their idiotic diaries.

And NG2 was just an unfinished game. No really focus on the story, and not even on the gameplay. Tons of glitches, missing content, cheap enemy design (kunai spamming etc.) and all that stuff what was discussed before ages ago.

Cutting off arms legs from the ninjas in NGS2 was more believeable to me since it made more sense in the actual story AND design, Sigma 2 brought to the game. The purple mist gave them the demonic touch and the way the mist vanishes in the air, looked really nice. I will only accept Sigma 2 as the true NG2. Wink Itagaki's last games were just lazy designed (DOA4, Xtreme 2, NG2) in terms of features, design and gameplay.

Hm, the color of the blood doesn't seem relevant, at least to me. NG2 had no mist, so they had to color the blood for each enemy. And NG1s never concentrated on the BS ninjas. It was more about Doku and Murai and all the crazy demon stuff.

Quote:
Whichever way you look at it the mist in NGS2 was designed move, like the mist or not thereís no reason for it and to be honest there doesnít have to be a reason for it.
Im convinced theta the reason why there was mist in NGS2 was to make the game look different from NG2, and to get around publishing issues with MS


There were enough reasons for it. The whole game called "Ninja Gaiden 2" was a reason for introducing at least a BIT sense to the games (background) story and design. My opinion. And, of course, to make the game more accessible on the world market.
Team Ninjas attempt to give NG a more personal touch by defining a story and not focusing on some stuff, game like Gears of War do better in any way, is more important to me, than another unfinished version of NG2. Same goes for Dead or Alive Dimensions. Finally a story mode, which should have been done long before.

Sure, I dont agree with everything what Hayashi says about his new games, but so far, he is doing a better job with his team.

Adding more story to NG3 and taking a bit blood and gore from NG2, without overdo things, is a good balance. And keeping good balance is also the key for a good game. Censoring a game means more work for the developer, too. And not doing this, automatically means getting another blacklisted game (not just in my country). And we all know Tecmo and Team Ninja are not the biggest studio, and especially not the one with the biggest budget. The last point is something most people simply dont understand. There are tons of reasons for keeping NG3s design the way it currently is. After all, TECMOs goal with a new game is to make money.

My only concern with NG3 is the thing with the weapons and I cant understand why they try to focus the games combat on "just" swords. I mean, NG is about more than just swords (even if I only used the TDS and the FC Laughing ). So far I can only think about the DS, DC & TF, BOTA and the level 4 DC & TF (DS and BOTA combined) and adding more blades if you already have 3 or 4, is pointless. Well, I guess I'll have to wait for more infos. Can't imagine Ryu only brings swords into battle, lol.




BTW, am I the only one who likes the new healthbar? I know, it's just black and white, but it looks cool. Loving the curved design. Reminds me on Sigma 2s mist xD Looks like the whole menu/inventory will be designed in a black/white scheme.
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