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I thnik auto-healing system make game too easy
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RYU81
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:17 am    Post subject: I thnik auto-healing system make game too easy Reply with quote

I didn't play game yet,every fight heath bar will charge I think is disappoint compare NG1 (when I play NGB1 in Master mode is like as hell to finish it in first time),what you think?
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TheNightbringer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it will not fully charge and stuff. Also the most important thing is here, that you always have a fair change at savepoints. In NG1 you fully loaded yourself whit pots just to be sure... This wont be in NG2 you always will have fair change any time...
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sanman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two words will end this debate.


Perminant Damage.
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Keylay
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like NightBringer said, we'll get fewer healing items than before. And on the harder difficulties, the re-charge rate is much smaller. So that should even it out.
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Daemon_Maior
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, I won't force you to use completely correct English, but I will ask you to form shorter sentences. That'll make it a lot easier to read. It's not that big a deal in your post here, as it's pretty short, but if you make longer messages in the same way they'll become too annoying to read.

Sorry for whining about your grammar already, but I figured I'd tell you that now, while I'm in a good mood, rather than when I'm pissed off. Razz

Now, on topic.

First off, the health bar won't regenerate fully. Every enemy attack deals temporary damage and permanent damage, only the temporary damage will be healed at the end of a fight. In addition, on higher difficulties enemies deal a higher percentage of permanent damage.
Not only will permanent damage not be healed out of combat, you can't even take a potion to heal it, meaning you have to get to the next save point in order to heal fully.


EXAMPLE:


Explanation of the life bar:
Hit Points Left
Temporary Damage Taken
Permanent Damage Taken
Healed by an Elixir.

Ryu has 50 Hit points

Life Gauge:==================================================(Full Life)

and gets hit for 18 damage. That 18 damage is divided in 13 temporary damage, and 5 permanent damage.

Life Gauge:==================================================

We only get hit this one time. Now the battle is over, and we get our temporary Hit points lost back.

Life Gauge:==================================================

________________________________________________________________________________

We're at 90% health, so fvck it all, let's continue. The next fight has twice as many enemies in it, and we get hit a total of three times.

First hit: 10 Temporary, 5 Permanent; Total 15.

Life Gauge:==================================================

Second Hit: 6 Temporary, 6 Permanent; Total 12.

Life Gauge:==================================================


Third hit: 8 Temporary, 2 Permanent; Total 10.

Life Gauge:==================================================

That was close, dammit, thankfully all of the ninjas, except Ryu himself, are dead now, so we get out temporary Hit Points back.

Life Gauge:==================================================

________________________________________________________________________________

Finally, we find two Elixirs of Spiritual Life. Let's assume they heal 20 Hit points. The Elixirs are totally useless out of combat, as they do not heal Permanent Damage. We have to continue to the last fight before the save point. During the battle we get hit twice.

First Hit: 14 Temporary, 4 Permanent; Total 18

Life Gauge:==================================================

Second Hit: 8 Temporary, 2 Permanent; Total 10

Life Gauge:==================================================

We're not done fighting yet, but feeling kind of tight with only 4 Hit Points left, we use one of the Elixirs. It heals us for 20 Temporary Hit Points.

Life Gauge:==================================================
Life Gauge:==================================================

We're forced to fight on, and get hit again... 10 Temporary Damage, 5 Permanent; total 15

Life Gauge:==================================================

Down to 8 Hit points, that's cutting it close, so far they've always hit for at least 10 damage. Let's use the other potion. It could heal 20 Temporary Hit Points, but we only have 12 Temporary Damage, so it cures all of that, but no Permanent Damage.

Life Gauge:==================================================
Life Gauge:==================================================

We fight on, and get hit once more. 12 Temporary Damage, 6 Permanent; Total 18

Life Gauge:==================================================

We manage to end the battle with three hit points left. And our Temporary Damage is healed again.

Life Gauge:==================================================

Finally, we get to the save statue, and it heals even Permanent Damage, the first time we touch it. It only does this the first time, after this, it's just a save statue.

Life Gauge:==================================================

EDIT: Yeah, there was hardly any difference in color. I changed it to green, now.
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Last edited by Daemon_Maior on Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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sabotage
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You probably should've used green instead of purple. The purple is blending in with the black.
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Ryu_Hayabusa
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deamon_Maior gets the Post of the Month award.
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Daemon_Maior
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skip the nominations, just go straight to the award. Laughing
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Tenken
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they confirm that healing potions DO heal the permanent damage? It makes no sense otherwise if they heal temporary damage since that auto-heals.

Just asking since your post said otherwise at one point.
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Vigaku
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the potions will heal the permanent damage bar. For one it would be stupid if it didn't and also if you watch the gdc demo, you can see the blue orbs healing ryu's permanent damage bar. Blue orbs and potions work the same way so I don't see how potions won't heal the permanent damage bar. I just believe in master ninja mode, they will give you less potions and increase the damage of your permanent bar every time you get hit.
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Vigaku
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mistake. It was actually the campus tour video not the gdc video where a blue orb healed his permanent damage bar.
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Daemon_Maior
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tenken wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they confirm that healing potions DO heal the permanent damage? It makes no sense otherwise if they heal temporary damage since that auto-heals.

Just asking since your post said otherwise at one point.


Temporary damage auto-heals while out of combat. I don't know about you, but I need my health the most when I'm in combat.

In fact, if healing potions do heal permanent damage, permanent damage would be a useless implementation, in my opinion. Permanent damage exists to make sure you don't get full health before every fight, if you can auto-heal the temporary damage, and take a potion over the permanent damage, you'd be in about the same the same, probably even a worse, situation you were in with the old system.

Of course, you could be right. But the way I explained it is how I remember it explained in the interviews, and the way it makes most sense to me.

And Vigaku, what makes you think blue orbs and potions work in the same way? There is a profound difference between getting a heal from something that happens in the middle of a battle, when you're probably high on temporary damage anyways, and something that happens whenever you need it, like when out of combat, when your temporary damage will be autohealed.
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Tenken
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potions were confirmed to be limited as well, hence the auto-healing system. I just fail to see why potions wouldn't heal permanent damage, if that were the case, then only save points could fully heal you. Which, by the way, have been said to only fully heal once(I'll see if I can find that article, I may be imagining things).
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Daemon_Maior
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tenken wrote:
Potions were confirmed to be limited as well, hence the auto-healing system. I just fail to see why potions wouldn't heal permanent damage, if that were the case, then only save points could fully heal you. Which, by the way, have been said to only fully heal once(I'll see if I can find that article, I may be imagining things).


In the old system you needed a lot of potions to account for all of the hits you took during battle, but after a while the battles with minor enemies got too easy, leaving the player with a lot of potions. Even if he still had difficulty with these encounters, he could just farm a little and have a high amount of potions ready for a boss or whatever.

Compare potion use in Ninja Gaiden to potion use in, for example, Final Fantasy. In Final Fantasy, you can carry crap of potions. Carrying 99 potions in Final Fantasy doesn't really help you during battles. In order to use these potions you'd have to spend a turn to heal one ally. Very often, this is a tactical mistake, as the person using the potion could also be attacking the enemy. Out of combat, you can use all the potions you want.

Note that the idea of having a lot of potions is to be able to drink however much you need while out of battle. But in Ninja Gaiden, drinking potions has no real penalties, since it doesn't take time or anything, this allows them to be used excessively in combat.

So the solution is to lower the amount of potions you get, leaving you with less health to suddenly add during battle. This is a problem though, as you also remove their use as an out-of-combat heal. So he decides to give auto heal. He also feels, correctly, in my opinion, that auto-heal alone is overpowered, a full life gauge before every battle is a bit too much. This is the reason he also added permanent damage, which doesn't heal automatically.

For clarification: Permanent damage exists to limit the auto-heal, to make sure you don't get a full life-gauge before every fight. If permanent damage is healed by potions, you could use a potion at the end of a fight, after you've auto-healed to get a full life-gauge. In my opinion, that pretty much beats the use of adding permanent damage to the game.

Of course, I may have misinterpreted the use of permanent damage, but if so, I would like a better explanation.
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Tenken
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Source: http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/ninja-gaiden-2/864847p2.html

Quote:
The way health is managed in Ninja Gaiden II has also changed. You'll no longer have to constantly switch out to menus in order to use healing items to keep your meter up, as your health bar will naturally replenish itself when out of combat. To keep health items viable, however, a change was made to the health bar itself. It's a system similar to that of many boxing games, in which health will replenish itself with a breather, but the size of your health bar will slowly diminish due to "permanent damage." In NG2 it's called a necrotic effect, but we just call it the bad red bar that eats into the good blue bar. You can remove this more permanent damage by using healing items or visiting the healing/save point, however, which are spread out liberally enough to keep the action flowing, at least on the easier difficulty settings.
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