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Final Fantasy 7 Advent Children.
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sabotage
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, people underestimate The Cell.
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Ninja Of Chaos
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sabotage wrote:
Again, people underestimate The Cell.


More like overestimate. The cell is just a bunch of SPE's that are used for tasks too precise. Meaning you cannot use them for general calculations, but mainly after-effects.

While in paper the Cell might be the better CPU, in a real world situation, the 360 CPU is much easier to program for and brings developers to use it better.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't make games so I can't comment on this. All I can go by is the paper and general comments made by developers. I will say this though, just because somethings easier doesn't make it better. I assume if you get a group of people who know how to tap into the PS3's cell and use it to it's fullest potential it'd surely be a one of a kind game that'll blow anything on the market away. Look at MGS4 for example.

As for the X360, yea it's a powerful system no doubt. But most of the games they're showing don't really look 'next-gen' to me besides Gears of War.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sabotage wrote:
I don't make games so I can't comment on this. All I can go by is the paper and general comments made by developers. I will say this though, just because somethings easier doesn't make it better. I assume if you get a group of people who know how to tap into the PS3's cell and use it to it's fullest potential it'd surely be a one of a kind game that'll blow anything on the market away. Look at MGS4 for example.

As for the X360, yea it's a powerful system no doubt. But most of the games they're showing don't really look 'next-gen' to me besides Gears of War.


And those developers will take over 5 years. Even Itagaki, a person that has coded for te Saturn which had EIGHT cores, says that the PS3 is too complicated to code for.

And what about MGS4? Weak textures covered by weak filters, with good character models. PGR3, GoW, Chromehounds, and many other titles on the 360 look much better. Hell, SC: CT for the Xbox has better environments, textures, lighting, shadowing and looks overall better.

And also, for something that is so close to the capacity of the 360 CPU, to be THAT much harder to code for, is a BAD thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chromehounds? Never heard of it until now.*Goes and see what it looks like* Not bad looking. Nothing to "ooo" and "ahh" over though. Doesn't really look all that better than Steel Battilion though and SB came out for XBOX.

Your statement on MGS4. HA! Riiiight. Weak textures covered with weak filters huh. Comparing MGS4 and SC:CT, again, another HA! PGR3, big whoop, technical racers bore me so I won't even give this game a second glance. The graphics don't impress me much neither. Gears of War, yea, awesome looking game. My only reason for getting a X360 is for this game alone.

As for Itagaki, if memory serves me right it took him nearly 5 years to make Ninja Gaiden for the XBOX. And the XBOX is suppose to be EASY to create games for. Just because he says the PS3's too complicated to program for your just going to go ahead and believe it. Geez, have a thought of your own.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sabotage wrote:
Chromehounds? Never heard of it until now.*Goes and see what it looks like* Not bad looking. Nothing to "ooo" and "ahh" over though. Doesn't really look all that better than Steel Battilion though and SB came out for XBOX.

Your statement on MGS4. HA! Riiiight. Weak textures covered with weak filters huh. Comparing MGS4 and SC:CT, again, another HA! PGR3, big whoop, technical racers bore me so I won't even give this game a second glance. The graphics don't impress me much neither. Gears of War, yea, awesome looking game. My only reason for getting a X360 is for this game alone.

As for Itagaki, if memory serves me right it took him nearly 5 years to make Ninja Gaiden for the XBOX. And the XBOX is suppose to be EASY to create games for. Just because he says the PS3's too complicated to program for your just going to go ahead and believe it. Geez, have a thought of your own.


You have no clue about what you are talking do you? Chromehounds has animations for SINGLE bolts in the machinery of the mechs. It runs at a smooth 60 fps, has unparalleled weight physics, the highest res-textures seen ANYWHERE and animation physics for single parts that can go up to 500 on screen. Let's not go into the fact that everything is destructible and polygonal edges non-existant.

It's people like you who know nothing about graphics that are seriously hurting next-gen. You look at something of low quality like MGS4 and are amazed? You look at those RE4-level textures and are wowed? But then you tell me something like PGR3 that has full modeled city with HDR lighting running at ALL times with no loading time whatsoever not impressive? (bTW, PGR3 is an arcade racer.)

Hell Kameo showing over 5000 characters on screen at the pixar-level of detail is mind-blowing. But MGS4 is far from it.

Also, NG was transfered through 3 consoles. Dreamcast, PS2 and then Xbox. It was only 2 years in development for the Xbox.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja Of Chaos wrote:
sabotage wrote:
Chromehounds? Never heard of it until now.*Goes and see what it looks like* Not bad looking. Nothing to "ooo" and "ahh" over though. Doesn't really look all that better than Steel Battilion though and SB came out for XBOX.

Your statement on MGS4. HA! Riiiight. Weak textures covered with weak filters huh. Comparing MGS4 and SC:CT, again, another HA! PGR3, big whoop, technical racers bore me so I won't even give this game a second glance. The graphics don't impress me much neither. Gears of War, yea, awesome looking game. My only reason for getting a X360 is for this game alone.

As for Itagaki, if memory serves me right it took him nearly 5 years to make Ninja Gaiden for the XBOX. And the XBOX is suppose to be EASY to create games for. Just because he says the PS3's too complicated to program for your just going to go ahead and believe it. Geez, have a thought of your own.


You have no clue about what you are talking do you? Chromehounds has animations for SINGLE bolts in the machinery of the mechs. It runs at a smooth 60 fps, has unparalleled weight physics, the highest res-textures seen ANYWHERE and animation physics for single parts that can go up to 500 on screen. Let's not go into the fact that everything is destructible and polygonal edges non-existant.

It's people like you who know nothing about graphics that are seriously hurting next-gen. You look at something of low quality like MGS4 and are amazed? You look at those RE4-level textures and are wowed? But then you tell me something like PGR3 that has full modeled city with HDR lighting running at ALL times with no loading time whatsoever not impressive? (bTW, PGR3 is an arcade racer.)

Hell Kameo showing over 5000 characters on screen at the pixar-level of detail is mind-blowing. But MGS4 is far from it.

Also, NG was transfered through 3 consoles. Dreamcast, PS2 and then Xbox. It was only 2 years in development for the Xbox.



1.) All I saw of Chromehounds was screens. I saw no videos so I can't comment on the animation so I'm just going to have to take your word for it for now.

2.) Don't start trying to classify me into a type of 'person who's hurting the next gen' I didn't do it to you so don't you dare try to do it to me. You wanna be an ahole then I'll just end this discussion right now and won't bother to waste another second of my time on you. Besides, I already know the next gen is going to hurt now that gaming has hit mainstream.

What seperates PGR3 from any of the other racers MS has thrown out there?(Which by the way is NOT an arcade racer, an arcade racer IMO is something like Burnout and Need for Speed. PGR doesn't even come CLOSE to fitting in this category. I've played PGR1 and 2 so I can stand firmly by this statement.) You tell me it can do nice things with lightning, whoopee, ALL NEXT GEN systems are going to do special things with lighting so that's not even a valid statement. When did I ever mention RE4's textures? Never, so don't put words in my mouth.

Gears of War has already been stated to be tapping into the X360's full power. That's right, Gears of War is basically the best the X360 can do visually. Full Auto is the same, it's said to be using the X360 to it's fullest as well due to the games advanced physics engine. You figure the games that are tapping into the systems full power wouldn't be coming out so soon in the systems lifeline... This is what worries me about the X360, if this is the best the system can do why should I waste 300 or so bucks on it. I'd expect the games to get better as the system ages. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't really have any other vids showcasing the PS3's abilities so you definitely have more ammo in your arsenal. Come next years E3 however PS3 better come out in full force showing what the system can do. I don't wanna see anymore prerendered crap, show me what I'll be playing. Show me what I'll be witnessing, show me something that's worthy of being called 'next-gen'. A simple graphics upgrading is not considered real 'next-gen' IMO. I want innovation, which is why I'm starting to lean towards Nintendo's Revolution. They're taking a chance while PS3 and X360 aren't. Still dunno about the Revolutions controller though... hope this doesn't turn into another gimmick like the Virtual Boy.

3.) Did not know about NG being transferred from system to system. I'll leave that alone and just take your word for it.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys guys guys!

We're here to talk about Advent Children, not to start a goddamn consolewar.
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sabotage
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh ya. Laughing

Well, GG Chaos. We'll just say you won seeing as how you have more ammo.

Back to FF7:AC, I really wish we could just talk like crazy about it but I really don't want to spoil anything for anybody. So much stuff I want to ask people who've seen it just to see what their opinions are of the matter.


[Possible SPOILER]
Like what really causes Geostigma, is it a side effect from Holy or is it possible it's being caused by the Lifestream? The movie never really does TRULY explain it. Vincent talked a little bit about it but it made no sense to me because he really didn't explain anything.
[Possible SPOILER ended]

^What'cha think about that Ryu?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possible spoiler
I think it is a side-effect from the Lifestream. Remember that memebers of SOLDIER got infused with it, so that their eyes glow a little. But that is just a little bit, and those who suffer from Geostigma could be exposed longer too it. The one fault here is why Cloud suffers from it, because in FFVII he was completely submerged in it, along with Tifa.

My theory, sort of.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Possible SPOILER]
Vincent mentioned something about Jenova causing it in the movie though. Kadaj even mentioned that Jenova's genetics are inside the Lifestream so that just leaves me to believe that Geostigma is caused by Jenova. Then again Jenova is part of the Lifestream now so I guess we can also say Geostigma is caused by the Lifestream as well. As good as the movies fight scenes were I wish some of the plot holes were explained. Hopefull FF7:Dirge of Cerberus will explain more.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope so too. My theory is flawed I guess, so I'll wait for a plot analysis for DoC.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't necessarily call your theory flawed, it's just that we weren't really given alot of information as to what's happening in Advent Children. The movie is basically just one fight scene after another with very little plot getting in the way. Don't get me wrong, the fight scenes are amazing and fun to watch. I just wish that same level of detail went into the story of AC. The main reason FF7 is so popular even to this day is because of it's plot so you'd figure Square would go the extra mile to give us more story.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True that. I'll try to cook up some more theories. Maybe I'll find something that fits, who knows.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sabotage wrote:
Ninja Of Chaos wrote:
sabotage wrote:
Chromehounds? Never heard of it until now.*Goes and see what it looks like* Not bad looking. Nothing to "ooo" and "ahh" over though. Doesn't really look all that better than Steel Battilion though and SB came out for XBOX.

Your statement on MGS4. HA! Riiiight. Weak textures covered with weak filters huh. Comparing MGS4 and SC:CT, again, another HA! PGR3, big whoop, technical racers bore me so I won't even give this game a second glance. The graphics don't impress me much neither. Gears of War, yea, awesome looking game. My only reason for getting a X360 is for this game alone.

As for Itagaki, if memory serves me right it took him nearly 5 years to make Ninja Gaiden for the XBOX. And the XBOX is suppose to be EASY to create games for. Just because he says the PS3's too complicated to program for your just going to go ahead and believe it. Geez, have a thought of your own.


You have no clue about what you are talking do you? Chromehounds has animations for SINGLE bolts in the machinery of the mechs. It runs at a smooth 60 fps, has unparalleled weight physics, the highest res-textures seen ANYWHERE and animation physics for single parts that can go up to 500 on screen. Let's not go into the fact that everything is destructible and polygonal edges non-existant.

It's people like you who know nothing about graphics that are seriously hurting next-gen. You look at something of low quality like MGS4 and are amazed? You look at those RE4-level textures and are wowed? But then you tell me something like PGR3 that has full modeled city with HDR lighting running at ALL times with no loading time whatsoever not impressive? (bTW, PGR3 is an arcade racer.)

Hell Kameo showing over 5000 characters on screen at the pixar-level of detail is mind-blowing. But MGS4 is far from it.

Also, NG was transfered through 3 consoles. Dreamcast, PS2 and then Xbox. It was only 2 years in development for the Xbox.



1.) All I saw of Chromehounds was screens. I saw no videos so I can't comment on the animation so I'm just going to have to take your word for it for now.

2.) Don't start trying to classify me into a type of 'person who's hurting the next gen' I didn't do it to you so don't you dare try to do it to me. You wanna be an ahole then I'll just end this discussion right now and won't bother to waste another second of my time on you. Besides, I already know the next gen is going to hurt now that gaming has hit mainstream.

What seperates PGR3 from any of the other racers MS has thrown out there?(Which by the way is NOT an arcade racer, an arcade racer IMO is something like Burnout and Need for Speed. PGR doesn't even come CLOSE to fitting in this category. I've played PGR1 and 2 so I can stand firmly by this statement.) You tell me it can do nice things with lightning, whoopee, ALL NEXT GEN systems are going to do special things with lighting so that's not even a valid statement. When did I ever mention RE4's textures? Never, so don't put words in my mouth.

Gears of War has already been stated to be tapping into the X360's full power. That's right, Gears of War is basically the best the X360 can do visually. Full Auto is the same, it's said to be using the X360 to it's fullest as well due to the games advanced physics engine. You figure the games that are tapping into the systems full power wouldn't be coming out so soon in the systems lifeline... This is what worries me about the X360, if this is the best the system can do why should I waste 300 or so bucks on it. I'd expect the games to get better as the system ages. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't really have any other vids showcasing the PS3's abilities so you definitely have more ammo in your arsenal. Come next years E3 however PS3 better come out in full force showing what the system can do. I don't wanna see anymore prerendered crap, show me what I'll be playing. Show me what I'll be witnessing, show me something that's worthy of being called 'next-gen'. A simple graphics upgrading is not considered real 'next-gen' IMO. I want innovation, which is why I'm starting to lean towards Nintendo's Revolution. They're taking a chance while PS3 and X360 aren't. Still dunno about the Revolutions controller though... hope this doesn't turn into another gimmick like the Virtual Boy.

3.) Did not know about NG being transferred from system to system. I'll leave that alone and just take your word for it.


1) Then go look at the official trailer of the game.

2) It's hard not to. You are telling me something bland like MGS4 (with crappy filters and lighting) is "wow" looking and then turn around ad tell me PR3 isn't? That's pure and utter BS. Especially considering MGS4 looks no better then SC: CT.

If nobody bothers to notice the special effects developers add to their games, developers won't bother adding them.

PGR was always an arcade racer. No sim will let you powerslide like that and get away with it. And add to that the kudos system, and you have a full blown arcade racer.

BTW, racers are all the same. You cannot change much on this side of gaming.

GoW is not even close to tapping the full power of the 360. For one thing the game only uses one of the three cores with one-threded coding. Each PPU on the 360 has dual-threading capabilities. Secondly, the game uses none of the special features given by the eDRAM (daughter chip). Stencil shadowing, free flowing animations, after effect bluring, all of those are effects not used by GoW. And now lets also say that GoW is prolly not straining the mother chip much seeing by its huge amount of ram in its pool.

And where the hell did the Full Auto BS come from? To say the game uses 2% of 360 horse-power would be an exageration. Not only does it not do all the things GoW doesn't, it doesn't use HDR, full modeled cities, it doesn't use ANYTHING.

All next gen consoles are going to bring gameplay to all new hights. Gimmicks like the NRev are only good for being a secondary console. Dreamcast was the last console that TRULLY innovated. It blew the old gameplay into new hights, and added additional machinery to help that, not create something new. Both PS3 and 360 games will be adding alot to games. To put it in perspective, imagine NG2 with battles that have interactivity at the level of the Sephiroth fight in Advent Children.

Also, how could all of a console's power be used right away? Developers have to get used to its development environment and then try to find their own ways into doing everything. That won't happen the moment night turns into day.
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