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Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor Edge General Thread
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Keylay
Legendary Ninja
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Joined: 07 Aug 2005
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NG - Emblem (Amount: 1) NGB - Master (Amount: 1) NGDS - The Eye of the Dragon (Amount: 1) NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can use Ryu to unlock Kasumi. You just have to get S rank on both chapters and all difficulties in Chapter Challenge. I thought the days of UT spamming would be gone but looks like it's the best way to win. I only got to play a little last night. I am working on Hard mode now. I'm hearing cool things about Kasumi so I'm excited to get back and unlock her. The best strategy to get S ranks is to SoB chain when the enemies glow red. They make a noise before they do so you can listen for that. And when you delimb them, they try to grab more often so you can use that to your advantage.
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Shrykull
Greater Ninja
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I played the demo.

* First impression: Okay, the sword seems to be the same, nothing much to see…
* Second impression: Oh? I couldn't do that move before. That one either. And that one… let's try the claws.
* Third impression: Holy crap, they are fast! With plenty of new moves too! Let's go into the first fight.
* Fourth impression: Ahaha, these grunts, so pathe… hey, let me some time to breathe, damnit… what the… since when are these mooks this agressive?! And since when can they dodge my attacks?!
* Fifth impression: Oh, the good ol' alchemists, I suppose I can just use my usual tactiwaitdidijustdie?! Ten times in a row?! Where are the alchemists I could just combo to death in Normal mode?!

Okay, that was my first playthrough of the demo. I did a few more after that and I loved it. I'll just put some disordered remarks.

− The movelist is massive. In level 2 I counted maybe five or six new combos for the sword alone, ditto for the claws. Now you have things like STT (the Tonfa's "flower garland drop"), STTT or >SSSS. Also a cosmetic yet nice addition: you can chose to use the "classic" Izuna drop (STSSST) or the "underworld drop" version the BotA had in Vanilla (STSSS>T). I happen to prefer the latter's animation, so I like this.
− The double katanas feel quite diffrent from NGII. The basic combo has a somewhat weird rythm to it. But once you get used to them they are very pleasant to use; and most of the old special moves are still there, improved (STSSS.T can be followed by a vertical finisher for example).
− Steel-on-bones works very well as a grab-counter; maybe a bit too well: sometimes you can dodge a grunt's grab and still SoB the guy half a second after. It's harder to do on tougher enemies though. It's fine as a risk-and-reward system, especially on dismembered enemies: if you want to dispose of the guy quickly, you just OT him. But if you're more greedy you can wait for him to try and grab you and SoB him to get more karma points and eliminate nearby enemies as well. And most importantly: it feels great.
− Overall the camera is better (not that it was terrible in Vanilla). I never felt the urge to scream at it even when I died. NGII's godawful camera screws are a thing of the past. Except maybe against the 3 sword alchemists. Speaking of which…
− Ayane has really been improved from Sigma 2. She still doesn't have that many combos but I felt I could do a lot more things with her. She is fast, fluid, and her hold-and-release attacks are seamless. Her Ninpo is also more useful than before.
− Also, I'm surprised no-one mentions one of the biggest improvements of RE: the combo system. It's flat-out the best in the series, and not quite like anything I've seen in other beat 'em alls. It's not only about the aforementioned expanded movelist: the fluidity with which you can chain ground combos, aerial combos, charge attacks and OTs is really a bliss.
− The enemies guard and dodge quite a lot, which is in stark contrast with NGII and even Sigma 2.
− A little remark on Hero mode: as shameful as it is for an experienced player like myself to play in that mode, it's actually great to experiment. The enemies behave like in Normal mode, but you don't have to worry about taking damage. So rather than an "easy mode" it's actually more of a "training mode" I would say.
− Oh, and the kunai-climb is much faster.


Any complaints? Well, a few:

− The guillotine throw is really hard to use. The timing is way too picky, or maybe it's a problem of detection I don't know. Either way, that makes it much less useful than it used to be.
− They removed the occasional stealth kills in Day 2, that's a pity. Maybe that's just for the demo though…
− You can no longer do an on-landing circle attack after throwing shuriken, what the heck?
− The slide SoB is definitely still there, since I did manage to do it once with Ayane, but I have no idea how.
− About the hold-and-release attacks, it's a pity that those of Ayane and the Double Katanas are all just a simple dash. I find it interesting that the charged attacks have different effects depending on when you do them with Vanilla's weapons. With the sword for example, SSST does a crowd control attack, SST sends the enemy to the ground and SS>ST is a launcher. No such thing with the double katana (which has plenty of moves to compensate, but still).
− For that matter, the UTs are rather lazy too. The sword, the claws and Ayane all have the same, or close. Only the DK have a unique one.
− And some of the fights are still too long, although the number of enemies has been slightly reduced I think.

Overall though, I really had a ton of fun playing this demo. I got that feeling that was absent in Vanilla: the feeling of progression and the incentive to explore and experiment. That can only be good news. Hell, the demo actually has more content than the entire Vanilla game. >__<

Voilà, voilà.
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Nok_su_kow
Ninja Dog
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ryu is still laggy/sluggish and unresponsive as ever. So it's automatically inferior to NG2 in my eyes. There's no rush or sense of urgency to the combat like NG2. The horrible enemy wave pace only adds to this experience. It gets boring real fast.

And that slide is now just completely laughable now that they took away its only redeeming feature, the pop up. How anyone can defend it now is beyond me.
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot agree about the unresponsiveness. There are still traces of it in a few sword combos, but otherwise I see little difference with the old games. In some cases it's actually more responsive than before if you ask me.
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alldin
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know if the unlockable Hayabusa costumes are also playable in (Story Mode) ?

Will it be like NGII where the selected costume will be in all cutscenes? Im curious mostly
how Ryu will unmask himself with the Evil Ryu costume during cutscenes...
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Hicho9
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post Shrykull! I agree with much of what you say.

Honestly, I am pretty shocked at just how big of an upgrade Razor's Edge is. It really feels like almost a different game now and I love it. The more I play of the demo, the more I am enjoying it and it is just the demo! I would agree that it does not quite match NG2 for me and Ryu does not feel quite as good/sharp as he did in NG2. But, it is not that far off at all and it does some things which I really like (the movesets for the weapons in RE might be favorite now of the whole series).

Honestly, it feels like NG is back with this game and fans really should try it out. It may not reach the heights of NGB or NG2, but it is most definitely a strong NG game now.
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Keylay
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NG - Emblem (Amount: 1) NGB - Master (Amount: 1) NGDS - The Eye of the Dragon (Amount: 1) NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not like those alchemists but after countless deaths, I was able to S rank all chapters and unlock Kasumi last night. I haven't played with her too much but she seems pretty cool. I like the changes they made to steel on bone. Using SoB is the best way to get the most karma, gives you some health, and is the best way to win. I just don't like being forced into one of playing. But SoB doesn't seem to work on the Van Gelf's or whatever those large purple fiends are called. And some enemies like the Black Spider Ninjas with guns don't give you many opportunities to do a SoB attack. But if you charge an UT, they seem to try and grab you more so you can just release Y if you didn't charge up yet and get a SoB. And enemies are a lot more evasive now. I like the changes to the ninpo too. The Art of the Wind Blades has a smaller meter so you can cast it more frequently than the first ninpo. I used it so that I could heal Ryu more often. I believe Ryu has an ability that lets him use Ki to replenish health so that would have made some of the fights a little easier. I'm liking NG3: Razor's Edge a lot more than I thought I would.

Last edited by Keylay on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Err… wait, I got an S rank on both missions with Ryu, but nothing was unlocked… you have to have two S ranks with Ayane too ?
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Keylay
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NG - Emblem (Amount: 1) NGB - Master (Amount: 1) NGDS - The Eye of the Dragon (Amount: 1) NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shrykull wrote:
Err… wait, I got an S rank on both missions with Ryu, but nothing was unlocked… you have to have two S ranks with Ayane too ?


You have to play chapter challenge and get S ranks on Normal, Hard, and Master ninja for both chapters. You can use either characters. And then you'll unlock Kasumi.
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch… the full game will be out before I can do that I think. Laughing
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Keylay
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NG - Emblem (Amount: 1) NGB - Master (Amount: 1) NGDS - The Eye of the Dragon (Amount: 1) NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I was debating waiting for the game to play Kasumi or just unlock her in the demo. It was so much work to get her. Those Alchemists annoyed me like no other. Normal and Hard aren't too bad. You just SoB everything. Master Ninja is what took me the most time.
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Nok_su_kow
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"and Ryu does not feel quite as good/sharp as he did in NG2"

And this should be the main concern. It's the one thing that brings everything else down. When the core combat is just sloppy, it doesn't matter what moves you can unlock, outfit for Ayane you can unlock or any of the other content they withheld from original NG3.

It's clear any latency, especially that slide, is a holdover from the multiplayer balancing. If everyone in the multiplayer controlled like NG2 Ryu, it would be broken, we can safely say that this is a fact.
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Hicho9
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get what you are saying Nok. I guess for me it is not such a black and white/all or nothing situation.

So, for me, saying that NG2 is still the better game and that Ryu does not feel quite as sharp in NG3RE does not mean that I think RE is a bad game or that Ryu feels sloppy in it. Based on the demo, I am very, very pleased with RE and Ryu moves great (certainly better than any other action game character out there)---it just does not quite match NG2 in feel. Five years later, nothing still matches NG2 in feel imho.
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I got an S rank in both Hard missions. It was faster than I thought. And to be honnest… I didn't see much difference between Normal and Hard. The enemies don't seem to have more health and don't deal much more damage, even their number seems to be more or less the same…

The good news is that I manage to get S ranks without too much SoB or UT spamming, which means variety of playstyles isn't too penalized in a Karma run. That was the big issue with NG1, let alone 2. I like my combos and counter-attacks. Still, I think 400 points (+100 points per kill) is too much for steel-on-bones, considering that it's not particularly hard to perform.

Quote:
Five years later, nothing still matches NG2 in feel imho.


I'm not a big fan of NG2 Vanilla personally (NINJA DOOOOOGS Shocked ), although I agree with you if we talk about Sigma 2.
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Shuhan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master Ninja was not quite as difficult as I anticipated. Or rather, it wasn't as tedious as I anticipated. I'm glad that enemies don't take your energy down in only one or two strikes. Seems like the most amount of damage they do comes from grabs. I looooove countering a grab with a Sakura Madoi or Cicada Surge then hitting them with a SoB from behind. It looks so awesome lol. I noticed that unlike Ryu, Kasumi can teleport (Sakura Madoi) in response to missiles. The only complaint I have is that Kasmui's UT Windmill Shuriken cannot be chained from combos.

There is far more combos this time around. In fact, there seems to be more combos than there were in NG2/NGS2. The AI seems a little smarter than they were in the original this time around in some ways. The BSC ninjas will simultaneously attack in unison with guard break attacks, which is cool to see. Also the Van Gelfs seem to have much more health than before. It seems like it takes much more damage to cut off one of their arms, but that makes it all the more satisfying when they are defeated. I'm glad that they don't telegraph every single grab and all of them cannot be countered with a SoB. Each enemy type seems to have at least one grab that isn't telegraphed with that red aura. Once you learn their attack patterns, the Alchemists aren't too bad. Although the first time I fought them they were a little annoying lol. They seem almost unfazed by weak melee attacks, and strong melee attacks seem to have a higher likelihood of connecting. They also seem to have more health, even on normal. On Master Ninja, even after hitting one with a couple UT's and a couple Izuna Drops, sometimes they wouldn't lose a limb.

The pop up is still there. However, the pop up isn't as accessible as it was in the original. Which is a good thing, because I feel that it was far too accessible in the original NG3. I managed to pull off a pop-up with all 3 characters, so I'm glad that it wasn't an ability exclusive to Ryu.

As far as unresponsiveness, there were no such things present when I played. Each character moved exactly as I told them, to there was no degree of unresponsiveness and there wasn't an ounce of lag. Even on Master Ninja, all three characters did exactly what I wanted them to do and when I wanted them to do it. Once you come to understand the combos and how they are supposed to be performed, it becomes quite easy to pull off any move you desire. We must keep in mind that the combos are performed differently than they were in NG2 (I really don't understand why NG2 is a standard for comparison but whatever lol). Ryu seems just as sharp as he's ever been in NGS2 and NG2, same goes for Ayane (who I'm happy to see is much faster than before).
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