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Is Ninja Gaiden 2 better and harder than Sigma 2?
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, now that I have a 360 (99€ and a game offered!) I could at last try out the original NG2. I'm on chapter 5.

I started in Acolyte because the controls are quite different even though I got used to the 360 controller on DMC4.
First, someone had the brilliant idea of putting the guard button on the left trigger ò.Ô Also you can't have Shuriken and the bow at same time since they both have the same button. Needless to say, my habits from Sigma 2 are all messed up: I go on first-person view when I want to guard, and I press B to throw shuriken mid-jump, forgetting that I have the f-ing bow equipped!

Anyway… passed these little inconveniences, the game is still enjoyable with a faster pace and plenty of juicy sounds when I delimb/crush. It definitely feels different. So much that I feel they actually put all the animation and graphic effort on the gore… for the rest it clearly doesn't look as good as Sigma 2.
On the controls again, several combos are also different. For the DS for example you have a five button X combo from the beginning but the Izuna drop only on level 2. For the Lunar, I tried a lot before realizing the STSST Izuna drop is not there (the ID is on X>XYXY); so no Izuna-droping Genshin, that's a shame 'cause I loved to do that. Instead the level 3 Lunar has a devastating XYYYY combo that got me the 100-hit achievement without even noticing! Pretty nice.

Oh yeah, I just said level 3… that may be because I'm on Acolyte and don't buy any healing items but having all your five weapons at level 3 in chapter 5 feels really weird. That makes the game quite a bit easier than it should be.

A word on the bosses: the giant metallic horned… thing in chapter 3 totally raped my ass and forced me to use a Talisman of Rebirth, I didn't expect that. The different aiming system is only partly guilty, I really felt that boss was more aggressive. As for Rasetsu, Genshin and Alexei, however, I didn't have the time to know if they were harder since they died in three combos… I know it's Acolyte but still… the blind giant is still piss easy, nothing strange.
The clawed ninjas who accompany the Rasetsu in chapter 2 however were more annoying than I thought, it's hard to stay focused on dodging than damn spider while killing them.
The Ninja Dogs seem for some reason identical and harder at the same time… that may be because of the absence of XYXXY combo for the Lunar, I was forced to change my habits for fighting them.

The Tests of Valor are, well, fiend challenges except you kill two enemies per second (the enemies really have no health in this version…) The absence of enemy count on the karma meter is a bit annoying. On acolyte it's only forty enemies so I can more or less keep track but on Master Ninja with 100 enemies and IS flying everywhere…

Let's come to the water fights. I have to admit: it's different than I thought. Sure the jellyfish are the most stupid and useless enemies ever created, like the designer was telling you "Hey, were you having fun? That's no good, here are infinitely respawning enemies that will block your route unless you engage in an incredibly boring shooting sequence!"
However, fighting the Gajas on water is a lot more fun than I expected. And I'm talking about fighting them, not shooting them with the GSG. Sure it's not the safest method and I took quite a bit of damage by falling underwater, but with a little training I'm sure it can look awesome. That makes me regret that Sigma 2 didn't go back Sigma's water-run system, which allowed to jump and do Flying Swallows. They could have made something great out of those fights.

This is where I stopped for the moment. I will have to do it on normal and higher to determine if it is harder or easier than Sigma 2. For the moment the greater number of enemies didn't really impress me. But it's still a fun game all in all.


Last edited by Shrykull on Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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xino
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's good you are trying out Ninja Gaiden 2.

but it doesn't really matter if you play in high difficulty to determine if it's harder or easier than Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2.

*when you come back after experiencing Ninja Gaiden 2, you will be proven that Master Ninja is cheap. But it's up to you to decide if- getting spammed by 6 rockters, archers behind screen is cheap. Or making sure you perfect your ninja skills by not getting grabbed by 1 hit death.
*it doesn't matter if you find Sigma 2 or NG2 harder than it's latter, I've already broken down the game design comparison. It is up to you to find that out yourself now that you have both games. See if my comparison are bull, inaccurate or biased.
*and finally you will decide whether having 'cheap' difficulty is what a real challenge should be
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bosses are not more "aggressiv". In NG2 (at least most of the sub bosses) they are just cheap. Gigadeath's (the chapter 3 boss) "Death Mask" attack has a homing feature. Same counts for the ghost things he spawns from time to time. Not getting hit in this fight is nearly impossible in NG2 and if you dont have any healing items, you can just reload your save game (not to mention that you need enough yellow essence, lol). And that's what I call dumb game design.

When I first played NG2, I really had to restart the game. I expected everything but not THIS.



And yes, the ninja dogs in NG2 are also pretty cheap. For Sigma 2 Team Ninja changed the initial frames for the standard throw (not the suicide attack) which means the jump animation of the dogs standard throw looks like a slow motion move, lol. And this means you can actually see and evade this totally overpowered piece of -blam- (even on warrior this throw costs you almost 45% of your health bar, normal health, in NG2).
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finished Acolyte:
−The water dragon fight is pretty different from Sigma 2, didn't expect that. That body slamming attack seems nigh impossible to avoid when on water…
−It's official, I hate these f***ing dogs! I am preparing for some mages and IS Ninjas or some marionets, instead I find myself pinned to the ground with an explosive dog on top of me… they are too fast, damnit…
−SH-SH-SH-SH-SH-SH-SH BOBOBOBOBOBOOM!!! SH-SH-SH-SH-SH-SH-SH BOBOBOBOBOBOM!!! How fast can you reload a MMM launcher?! Shocked This is probably the cheapest part of the game.
−The drone turrets in chapter 9: first I was trying to shoot them and very annoyed, but directly destroying them on water is much more efficient and is a surprisingly good way to avoid the rockets. Again, too bad they removed them from Sigma 2…
−I discovered the red dragon enemies. They don't fall apart at the drop of a hat, and are pretty fun to fight once you get used to them. Ditto.
−The worm boss… what the… who the hell designed that thing?! ò.Ô I fought it without even seeing it… the whole green tunnel part is total nonsense actually. NOT ditto.
−The famous stairway fight… pretty impressive in slow-motion indeed, but the number is more flashy than really threatening. But unleashing an attack that instantly reaps 10 enemies is pure bliss. At the same time this is a glaring example of what a game breaker the UTs are compared to NG1.
−The Quetzalcoatl fight is not as bad as I thought, you have to move quite a bit actually, I was caught off guard at the beginning, expecting an effortless fight. But the void Ninpo taking 80% of their health, wtf?!
−The double Armadillo fight… that's… really a stupid fight… I never liked that boss in the first place, so fighting two of them, good lord… and it's tiring for the eyes to boot.
−Fiend Genshin is piss easy, I barely took any damage…
−Dagra Dai however is more random in his pattern and he summons Van Gelfs at any time, making him harder but not really cheap. My usual tactics (killing the VG, avoiding the beams, charging BotA and releasing when he charges and starts shooting lightning, taking advantage of the i-frame) simply doesn't work as well here.
−I used my 5 LoTG against the immature Archfiend, and this time this is due to the aiming system. Since you can't move while you aim and have to charge your arrows for two seconds it's easier to be caught off guard. He also spams the blue ghost things much more.
−The credits are awesome.

Now I redo it on normal and don't have nearly as much trouble as the first time. Even Gigadeath was not too hard after all.

Quote:
The bosses are not more "aggressiv". In NG2 (at least most of the sub bosses) they are just cheap. Gigadeath's (the chapter 3 boss) "Death Mask" attack has a homing feature. Same counts for the ghost things he spawns from time to time. Not getting hit in this fight is nearly impossible in NG2 and if you dont have any healing items, you can just reload your save game.


Ouch ò.Ô I thought there was someting different, so that was it…
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chapter 3 in Mentor mode (yeah, already). OK, these Tests of Valor are getting pretty ridiculous now ò.Ô This one killed me more than the 30 chapters before together! Even got an achievement for 100 continues XD The underworld ninjas can survive an Izuna Drop like in Sigma 2, that complicates things a little. A lot actually.
This is getting really tough, but as long as this is Van Gelfs and tac ninjas, or even a few IK ninjas, it's not too unfair and still fun. When there are MMM launchers however… I have the feeling chapter 8 is gonna be a pain…

Making the LoTG a healing item was a bad idea I think. I'm so cautious to preserve them for tougher fights that I end up forgetting I have them and never using them in the end Laughing I used the first one in chapter 12 against Zedonius and the rest just before killing the Archfiend. Yeah, I made almost the entire Normal mode with my original lifebar. No wonder it was a bit tough…

I've got two questions:
−What are the crystal skulls for in this version? The prices at Muramasa's don't drop at all…
−I heard there was a solo mission mode but how do I unlock it?
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Sath
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are no solo mission modes in Sigma 2, that was one of my VERY dissapointing aspects for this game.
Hayashi forced us to play co-op even offline which I dont want.
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah but… I was talking about NG2 >__<
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Sath
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NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shrykull wrote:
Yeah but… I was talking about NG2 >__<


Oh, yes there is solo mission mode, as DLC *shakes head*
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn, no wonder it didn't appear…

I'm starting Master Ninja Mode! I thought the rocket guys were cheap… the explosive arrow ninjas are even worse. The former spammed rockets but you could at least see them coming from front, not the explosive arrows. For some reason I didn't nearly hate them as much in Sigma 2, and they didn't nearly kill me as much either… 25% of my deaths are against them, 5% against white ninjas and mages, the other 70% are by IK Ninjas. Or to be precise, the other 70% are by IK.

I can manage against most enemies, but the IK Ninja fights in MN are luck-based to a truly ridiculous extent. Manage to dodge the IK? One explodes on the wall and kills you. Manage to stay away from the wall and start a UT? You get IK stuck on you while doing it. OT an enemy? Ditto. Manage to avoid the explosion by dashing? A second one will get you. Izuna Drop an enemy? Some guy will grab and kill you when you land. You get IK thrown and stuck at you all the time, exploding everywhere, and there is not much you can do about it. God help you if you have to fight them in a narrow space. I can't even imagine what The Fight in chapter 11 will be like…



Other than that, I picked a giant crystal skull. I have no freaking idea what it's supposed to do. ò.Ô
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, many cheap moments in NG2....game is lame.


The giant crystal skull? No one really knows the reason for that skull. Seems like a joke from Itagaki or so.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please read
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6531/darwinian_difficulty_how_throwing_.php
The article talks about real difficulty games, "Hard to Beat" games or "Darwinian Difficulty" which are Demon Souls and Ninja Gaiden Black.

For people who thinks my article is bogus or biased, this article is my backup to show that I know what I'm talking about.

The author obviously did his research or played both difficult games and during the course of typing the article; he should have came across NG2. Only Ninja Gaiden and Ninja Gaiden Black were mentioned. NG2 was not because it was a badly designed game with cheap difficulty. I've explained that "cheap difficulty" is not classed as a real challenge.


I like the response in this topic so far because many don't care about which game is better, which proves they are fans of NG and gamers. People who have a problem with the comparison are the real fanboys.

So when you come came across someone telling others that NG2 is a better game or harder than NGS2, you obviously know the person is a fanboy.
If you say or hear others say "I like NG2 better than NGS2". That is fine because you favour it over NGS2 and it is your opinion.
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AwesomeFrancis
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thinks ninja gaiden 2 is better.
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pressed on a bit, I had left the game at the test of valour of chapter 3; and I passed that one. Cause it's too ridiculously hard with little health and no upgrades. I don't feel like doing any test of valour in MN actually…

After that, went the aptly named Gigadeath. In Master Ninja you really realize how incredibly cheap this boss is… there were situations where it suddenly got behind me, grabbed me and killed me… even though the second before it was at the other end of the arena. Wut? ò.Ô

After that, the beginning of chapter 4, with another helping of IK Ninja + explosive archers. So many explosions everywhere that you can't see what you're doing, so much fun.

And after that… it actually got easier. I'm more or less used to IK Ninja now, as I discovered how incredibly useful the Guillotine Throw could be against them (having a fleshed out arsenal helps a bit though). They really are most annoying when combined to explosive archers in the end… Alexei wasn't nearly as hard as in Sigma 2, I got him on my firt attempt.

Also, once I got the double katana (and stopped to meet "explosive" enemies), the difficulty was suddenly halved. I've understood the trick to do Izuna Drops on water to boot, very useful. Run to the Gaja, XXY to lift it, them wait a second, and XXXY. The wait-a-second part is vital. And it makes water fighting a damn sight easier. I regret its removal from Sigma 2 all the more.

Now I'm DCTFing my way through chapter 6, moving on.
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Shrykull
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At last I beat it ! The last two chapters weren't so hard, they didn't make me suffer nearly as much as in Sigma 2 (especially the long corridor in chapter 16… oh the pain…)

Well, except Elizebeth, that one was a pain, I ended up using the Genshin body glitch. >___< Yeah, it was late and I was tired… but I hardly believe I managed to beat her without that in Sigma 2, 'cause she was even harder…

Dagra Dai… rrraaaagh, how the fvck how we supposed to dodge all that lightning ? In Sigma 2 I can do it easily, but in NG2 I can't seem to find the right timing… so, i-frame, i-frame, i-frame. Like Gigadeath, but worse, which is saying a lot.

Anyway, too bad they didn't keep that golden costume in Sigma 2. I love it. That's a nice reward at least Razz
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank u for video
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