ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in   

E3 trailer And Gameplay.
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Ninja Fortress Forum Index -> Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Female Tengu
Superior Ninja
Superior Ninja


Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 687
Location: Germany
Gamertag: GalaxySpider PSN: GalaxySpider

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's wrong with these "combos" in NG?

NG was NEVER! about combos. If you tried that in NG1, the game punished you by not giving you the time karma bonus. NG is about to kill your enemy as fast as possible. In NG2 you get bonus points for killing enemies with OTs which is the fastest way to defeat injured enemies. A 2 hit combo in NG1 was worth 10 points, lol and connecting attacks to long chains is also pretty much pointless in NG2 and looks totally dumb (animations, glitches) btw


So far this hasn't changed in NG3. A "SOB" like Sath said, is an instant kill.


Quote:
One thing I dont seem to understand is that some enemies Ryu attack for the first time, the first slash gets into this Steel-to-bone (SOB) sequence, its VERY stupid IMO to do that.


Same here. Well, If it kill my enemy, I'm fine with it, but IMO the perma slow motion cam becomes. I hope you can turn that cam off.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sath
Shadow Ninja
Shadow Ninja


Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 1789
Location: Sweden
Gamertag: PSN: ISathI
NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NG1 was about killing your enemies in offense and defense mode, it was about finding an opening to kill your enemy.
But it wasent about combos either considering the moves were limited to each attack it led up to.

NG2 was about killing your enemies brutally, which was the OT but they add alot of new ways to actually have long and lengthy combos, so NG2 essentially became a hybrid.

And tbh, I do see that with NG3 as well, but the level they showed is Tutorial level and those attacks are as advanaced as a level 1 Dragon Sword in NG2 beginning.

The "QTE" here I am guessing is a replacement from all the silly chests were you open and it explains and show a video.
In NG3 you are learning by actually using the buttons the game shows so you can have a easier understanding and it feels more natural later on, atleast thats how I see it.

The only QTE I dont mind is the SOB that randomly shows up, but I dont want it to be like God of War were same kill move is just random QTE.

I just hope the SOB isnt just random and you can hold a button to manually activate it, if not, it would ruin the pace, idea and combo of whatt he player was planning to do.

But, I am liking it more now, first impression is important and it failed big time so I am trying to understand what Hayashi is thinking of so I do hope later levels they show is a true NG game without these nonsense QTEs.

About those tutorial QTEs and DOA Dimensions, this is what I was thinking of
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-m9EvsovZI&feature=related#t=04m44s

Guide the player so he/she becomes familair with but later on turn it off for good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sath
Shadow Ninja
Shadow Ninja


Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 1789
Location: Sweden
Gamertag: PSN: ISathI
NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys I got some great news to show you...

Here you can see no QTE during the combat other than ambush in the fog, but the player is actually running around, which I thought the stealth sequences was forced!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFBCVvpHeOI&feature=player_embedded#at=49

And here is only combat, no QTE during combat whatsoever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osByCpbDUgA&feature=relmfu

Hayashi did say the QTEs are just for tutorial to guide you at first to get into the new mechanic, but once you do them they will go away, damn I love watching the gameplay now without getting those constant QTEs and slow mo.

Camera is very bad during the fog, I do believe the camera was suppose be stealth mind. But considering the player was a genius to go all actiony the camera doesnt go back.
Though I do believe its done on purpose for challenge which NG is known for as goes for some cheapness as usual lol

My faith is restored seeing these videos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vueguy
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 210
Location: USA
Gamertag: XBL: Vuezero PSN: Vueguy

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Female Tengu wrote:
What's wrong with these "combos" in NG?

NG was NEVER! about combos. If you tried that in NG1, the game punished you by not giving you the time karma bonus. NG is about to kill your enemy as fast as possible. In NG2 you get bonus points for killing enemies with OTs which is the fastest way to defeat injured enemies. A 2 hit combo in NG1 was worth 10 points, lol and connecting attacks to long chains is also pretty much pointless in NG2 and looks totally dumb (animations, glitches) btw


So far this hasn't changed in NG3. A "SOB" like Sath said, is an instant kill.


Different people play for different reason.
People who want high karma just to be on the top leaderboard then yes UT and OT give them a lot of karma which you can spam UT alone to finish off every enemies to get the most karma.

Check out XNinjaRed video on youtube, he was one crazy Ninja Gaiden master combos.

Link

See how he switch the weapons? Note, he cut off the part that show the quick menu on the screen that pause the game so you can see it look like a quick weapon switch when he edit the video.
This is what I am talking about, if NG3 actually have a quick time weapon switch, it would rock even more, but like Sath said, Hayashi probably haven't think that far anyway.

Like the bold sentence I said above, different people play for different reason for their satisfaction.

NG is about to kill your enemy as fast as possible. True but only for karma run, if you don't care about karma run and want to have fun, like XNinjaRed and most people that want to do crazy combos, a true quick switch weapons like GoW3 would be awesome for a Ninja Gaiden game.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Primeval_Demon
Superior Ninja
Superior Ninja


Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 783



PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say enter nightmare for Mission select.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDBwqwAfljA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MSX2
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 189
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gamertag: PSN: Verdugo04

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One, it's a huge relief that they're tutorial visuals rather than true QTE's.. and I do mean HUGE. Two, not all of us cared about the karma system.. I sure as hell didn't, and looked for every exploit to do combos. The games certainly let you do that with some work; the mere fact that shurikens were useless used as buffers.

Sure, you can argue that those are mere exploits that unintentionally became part of the norm. BUT that's not a bad thing at all. Anyone here who's played fighters since SFII's heyday (damn I'm old) knows that a lot of the genre's technical norms were in fact initially exploits. Just Frames/glitch cancelling, the whole concept of buffering, and backdash canceling and so forth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Female Tengu
Superior Ninja
Superior Ninja


Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 687
Location: Germany
Gamertag: GalaxySpider PSN: GalaxySpider

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Vueguy

I know this video. It's impressive and pointless at the same time. No offense, of course.
I do know that people play for different reasons. But bringing features to a game which go behind the actual concept how the game should be played, is a waste of time.

Take a game like Gran Tourismo. Have you ever tried to crash into your opponents? Trying to play the game like a Burnout title right after your motto "different people play for different reasons" brings you nowhere here. Thats why the cosmetical damage to cars is also very limited.

I dont blame Hayashi. It's unfair and the devs have their own visions for the game.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Neders
Common Ninja
Common Ninja


Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 69

Gamertag: PSN: Neders

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But bringing features to a game which go behind the actual concept how the game should be played, is a waste of time


I agree with this 100%. I for one hope that ninja gaiden is never developed with combos in mind. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with people trying to pull off long combos by exploiting mechanics, but I hope they never change the emphasis of the game to justify that. Way too many DMCs and Bayonetta-like games out there.

Even God of War was not meant for combos considering that the weapons only "rotate" (you switch to the next weapon, not any weapon you want).

In fact combos are the main reason I couldn't beat DMC 4...I lost interest pretty quickly. There are only so many hours I can take of "Crazy! Blast! Alright! Sweet! SShowtime! SSStylish!". Nothing wrong if you like it, but ninja gaiden is about something totally different
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Primeval_Demon
Superior Ninja
Superior Ninja


Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 783



PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG Dragon sword controls? Shocked Didn't see that coming at all.

http://uk.kotaku.com/5810475/ninja-gaiden-3-for-wii-u-gets-dragon-sword+style-touchscreen-controls
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sath
Shadow Ninja
Shadow Ninja


Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 1789
Location: Sweden
Gamertag: PSN: ISathI
NGS - Sigma (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Primeval_Demon wrote:
OMG Dragon sword controls? Shocked Didn't see that coming at all.

http://uk.kotaku.com/5810475/ninja-gaiden-3-for-wii-u-gets-dragon-sword+style-touchscreen-controls


I thought it was obvious lol
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vspectra
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 189



PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sath wrote:


And the games story is focusing on Dragon Sword but there will be other weapons, but its unsure how many and what.

The whole weapon thing doesnt bother me considering I love Dragon Sword and its my main weapon.



He says the story AND the action is based on the sword, so I'm guessing he's hinting that we'll have different swords to play with. We've already seen Ryu wield the Blade of the Archfiends in the teaser. I'm guessing there won't be Tonfas, Claws, Flails, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vspectra
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 189



PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Female Tengu wrote:
@Vueguy

I know this video. It's impressive and pointless at the same time. No offense, of course.
I do know that people play for different reasons. But bringing features to a game which go behind the actual concept how the game should be played, is a waste of time.

Take a game like Gran Tourismo. Have you ever tried to crash into your opponents? Trying to play the game like a Burnout title right after your motto "different people play for different reasons" brings you nowhere here. Thats why the cosmetical damage to cars is also very limited.


If that's how people enjoy playing the game, then there's nothing pointless about it. It practically shows the depth of Ninja Gaiden's combat engine. It's not even a "feature" they had to work on, it's an exploit within the combat system that allows you to link combos strings, so I highly doubt much time was "wasted" on it during development. Itagaki saw people play this way in NG1 so he left it in NG2 because his reasoning is the game is open to how YOU want to play it.

Also, the karma system is there only for competitive reasons and the fact that they can label the game as being online compatible. It's not a punishment system for doing long combos like you suggested. Karma is more of reward system if anything.

And that GT5 comparison is all sorts of bizarre, I don't see its relevance as to how NG could or should be played.

Honestly imo, the SOB looks like a cheap gimmick. It's still a QTE without a button prompt. The game still requires you to press square at the right time. An up-close camera and the game forcing me to press one button just so I can "feel" like i'm cutting bone is stupid. And it's not even an instant kill since you can still see enemies walk around after an SOB is performed, they're just not attacking. You still have to attack them more in order to kill them from the vids I've watched.


Last edited by vspectra on Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:01 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mesharey
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 161
Location: Kuwait
Gamertag: Mesharey Live

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Hopefully QTEs are for tutorial. :P
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CoolBlackKnight
Greater Ninja
Greater Ninja


Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Ishtaros' Bed(She's kinky with that whip)


PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vspectra wrote:
Female Tengu wrote:
@Vueguy

I know this video. It's impressive and pointless at the same time. No offense, of course.
I do know that people play for different reasons. But bringing features to a game which go behind the actual concept how the game should be played, is a waste of time.

Take a game like Gran Tourismo. Have you ever tried to crash into your opponents? Trying to play the game like a Burnout title right after your motto "different people play for different reasons" brings you nowhere here. Thats why the cosmetical damage to cars is also very limited.


If that's how people enjoy playing the game, then there's nothing pointless about it. It practically shows the depth of Ninja Gaiden's combat engine. It's not even a "feature" they had to work on, it's an exploit within the combat system that allows you to link combos strings, so I highly doubt much time was "wasted" on it during development. Itagaki saw people play this way in NG1 so he left it in NG2 because his reasoning is the game is open to how YOU want to play it.

Also, the karma system is there only for competitive reasons and the fact that they can label the game as being online compatible. It's not a punishment system for doing long combos like you suggested. Karma is more of reward system if anything.

And that GT5 comparison is all sorts of bizarre, I don't see its relevance as to how NG could or should be played.

Honestly imo, the SOB looks like a cheap gimmick. It's still a QTE without a button prompt. The game still requires you to press square at the right time. An up-close camera and the game forcing me to press one button just so I can "feel" like i'm cutting bone is stupid. And it's not even an instant kill since you can still see enemies walk around after an SOB is performed, they're just not attacking. You still have to attack them more in order to kill them from the vids I've watched.




Good post.

It(SoB) looks exactly like some cheap gimmick.

And the new Flying Swallow to on-connect Stab/throw sucks even more... Another cheap way to remove decaps. Rolling Eyes


.....
_________________
"I see you deny your brain its purpose... it yearns to think, but you hold it back."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Kayin Amoh
Ninja Dog
Ninja Dog


Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 13



PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the new flying swallow throw - the only problem is that you won't have that awesome moment when you catch three soldiers in a row with it and the heads go flying.

I'm off to watch the initial NG reveal video actually.


Link


That's how you show off a trailer. Plenty to see, long and varied. The NG3 trailer had some nice cuts, but most of it showed nothing more than the automatic QTE animations, instead how the player could manoeuvre and excel in the game or pull off genuinely awesome attacks.

Sath wrote:


If they add Hayate then all is forgiven...ALL Hayashi, everything lol

But I am guessing Rachelthe great, Momiji, Ayane and Kasumi are going to be playable only during MP.

Rachel and Momiji playable in multiplayer would be awesome. I've no interest in any of the Doa characters crossing over, except perhaps an unplayable Ayane as Ryu's messenger since she was in the first Xbox reiteration.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Ninja Fortress Forum Index -> Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 5 of 8

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group