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The "Tenjin girl" ?
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WeaN
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It only says "an ancient Tenjin" ?
Then it does make sense regarding how Obaba calls her ... but both don't make sense regarding the canon of DOA storyline.

Female Tengu wrote:
At the same time when the Tenshin Mon moved Ayane

You probably mean Tenjin Mon.
Tenjin Mon is part of the Mugen Tenshin style. But the term "tenshin mon" doesn't exist. It's either "Tenjin Mon" or "Hajin Mon". I know I'm being picky, but the meaning of these terms is the whole point of the thread, actually Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mohsin117 wrote:
well i can’t see that happening just cos the Hajin Mon ranks lower to the Mugen Tenshin’s ruling family doesn’t mean that the Hayabusa can give orders to them, their totally different clans yes there’s alliances between the two and i think that is what it is,

You don't seem to understand how Alliances work.
Let me give you an example:
Tecmo is above Team Ninja as Team Ninja is a part of Tecmo.
NGII got Published by Microsoft, so in a way Microsoft got an Alliance with Tecmo.
Because Microsoft is in "Alliance" with Tecmo, they have control over Team Ninja for the duration of the "Alliance" which would be the Ninja Gaiden II project.

Replace Tecmo with the Mugen Tenshin.
Replace Team Ninja with the Hajin Mon Sect of Mugen Tenshin.
Replace Microsoft with the Hayabusa.
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Female Tengu
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WeaN wrote:
It only says "an ancient Tenjin" ?
Then it does make sense regarding how Obaba calls her ... but both don't make sense regarding the canon of DOA storyline.

Female Tengu wrote:
At the same time when the Tenshin Mon moved Ayane

You probably mean Tenjin Mon.
Tenjin Mon is part of the Mugen Tenshin style. But the term "tenshin mon" doesn't exist. It's either "Tenjin Mon" or "Hajin Mon". I know I'm being picky, but the meaning of these terms is the whole point of the thread, actually Smile



Yes, you are picky Laughing

No, just kidding. My mistake Embarassed
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mohsin117
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XNinjaRed wrote:
You don't seem to understand how Alliances work.
Let me give you an example:
Tecmo is above Team Ninja as Team Ninja is a part of Tecmo.
NGII got Published by Microsoft, so in a way Microsoft got an Alliance with Tecmo.
Because Microsoft is in "Alliance" with Tecmo, they have control over Team Ninja for the duration of the "Alliance" which would be the Ninja Gaiden II project.

Replace Tecmo with the Mugen Tenshin.
Replace Team Ninja with the Hajin Mon Sect of Mugen Tenshin.
Replace Microsoft with the Hayabusa.


That’s not even an alliance Microsoft published NG2 so the money came from them and since Team NINJA is owned by TECMO, TECMO has basically loaned out Team NINJ for Microsoft

And what’s even more stupid about your example is that if Microsoft was to call up Team NINJA now (Team NINJA not TECMO) and tolled them to do some thing would Team NINJA do it

Now let me give you a proper example:
Britain has an alliance with the US that doesn’t mean that the US can call up the S.A.S and tell them what to do, what that means is that Britain can send the S.A.S down to help them out after which the US can request tasks to be done by the S.A.S not order them to do things, and the S.A.S would pull out the second that Britain tells them to meaning that the US has no control of the S.A.S or any off the British forces despite Britain being the US’s biggest ally

Replace Britain with the Mugen Tenshin.
Replace S.A.S with the Hajin Mon Sect of Mugen Tenshin.
Replace US with the Hayabusa.
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XNinjaRed
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to realize I put "Alliance" in quotes, meaning I didn't consider that a real Alliance.
I even said "in a way". And I said Microsoft has control over Team Ninja "for the duration of the Alliance".
That is what's differs the Hayabusa Clan's Alliance with the Mugen Tenshin from the Alliance of Britain and US.
The Hayabusa Clan and the Mugen Tenshin have lived together for a long time and from what I've gathered, have never been at war. They always worked together. There's a reason the Shadow Clan (a sect from the Hayabusa Clan) worked together with the Hajin Mon sect. The Hayabusa and Mugen Tenshin have a close friendship and thus the ones beneath them will have to work for the both of them.

That is of course until the Shadow Clan defected from the Hayabusa Clan.
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mohsin117
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XNinjaRed wrote:
You have to realize I put "Alliance" in quotes, meaning I didn't consider that a real Alliance.
I even said "in a way". And I said Microsoft has control over Team Ninja "for the duration of the Alliance".
That is what's differs the Hayabusa Clan's Alliance with the Mugen Tenshin from the Alliance of Britain and US.
The Hayabusa Clan and the Mugen Tenshin have lived together for a long time and from what I've gathered, have never been at war. They always worked together. There's a reason the Shadow Clan (a sect from the Hayabusa Clan) worked together with the Hajin Mon sect. The Hayabusa and Mugen Tenshin have a close friendship and thus the ones beneath them will have to work for the both of them.

That is of course until the Shadow Clan defected from the Hayabusa Clan.


If you didn’t consider it a real alliance then why mention it and what you did mention is more off a contract then an alliance

And it doesn’t matter that the Hayabusa and Mugen Tenshin close friends or what ever that still doesn’t give the right for the Hayabusa to order the Hijin mon
The Hayabusa have no control what so ever over the Hijin mon un less the Hijen mon are ordered by the Mugen Tenshin to take orders from the Hayabusa,

and again it doesn’t matter that they have been friends from the beginning of time if for what ever reason the Mugen Tenshin falls out with the Hayabus than all the help that coms from the Hijin mon is cut
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BlackNinja9
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys all have calid poiints, but let's not forget doa/ng has tons of plotholes that probably won't ever get filled. Either it has been mentioned that NG is a retcon of the orignal and it takes place before the DOA series. That was the case but with all the discrepencies I don't that now. This is what I meant by having Team Ninja flesh out their story.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a really interesing discussion going on here, I love discussing &/or reading what others say about the Doa/Ng "story" lol. When Ayane was born, she was sent to live with her uncle Genra, who is Ayame's brother. The Hajinmon (according to the Doa2u booklet) basically work behind the scenes for the Tenjin mon so most clans if any except the Hayabusa clan shouldnt even know about the Hajinmon sect. There is no info on how or why the Hayabusa clan is so close to the Mugen Tenjin.
So I do believe the Hayabusa and Mugen tenjin clans are in some sort of alliance but neither tells the other what to do. They just always have each other's back. Which could explain why Ayane was helping Ryu (& Murai for a bit) during the first Ninja Gaiden. The Mugen Tenjin couldn't offer "direct" support so as not too get the Black Spider clan on there backs (I'm guessing here XD), so they send in the secret Hajinmon sect. Since I'm sure Shiden (Kasumi and Hayate's father) probably felt Ayane was expendable, they sent her on those dangerous missions. It only helped to make her stronger and the Kuniochi she is today imo.
I'm sure word spread of a "posioned" child (what Ayane was referred to as, poor girl) from the Tenjin mon clan amoung the ninja clans, and you cant forget about Raidou, the very reason Ayane exists. He could've had some connection to Obaba being he was doing dark magic and she is all about dark magic. He may have found out about Ayane and gloated that was his child with Ayame of the Tenjin mon thus Obaba simply calling her that "Tenjin" girl. Least thats how I think things may have went. Hope this made sense Embarassed
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It made sense, but a few line breaks in there couldn't have hurt, lol.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solitaryrose wrote:
This is a really interesing discussion going on here, I love discussing &/or reading what others say about the Doa/Ng "story" lol. When Ayane was born, she was sent to live with her uncle Genra, who is Ayame's brother. The Hajinmon (according to the Doa2u booklet) basically work behind the scenes for the Tenjin mon so most clans if any except the Hayabusa clan shouldnt even know about the Hajinmon sect. There is no info on how or why the Hayabusa clan is so close to the Mugen Tenjin.
So I do believe the Hayabusa and Mugen tenjin clans are in some sort of alliance but neither tells the other what to do. They just always have each other's back. Which could explain why Ayane was helping Ryu (& Murai for a bit) during the first Ninja Gaiden. The Mugen Tenjin couldn't offer "direct" support so as not too get the Black Spider clan on there backs (I'm guessing here XD), so they send in the secret Hajinmon sect. Since I'm sure Shiden (Kasumi and Hayate's father) probably felt Ayane was expendable, they sent her on those dangerous missions. It only helped to make her stronger and the Kuniochi she is today imo.
I'm sure word spread of a "posioned" child (what Ayane was referred to as, poor girl) from the Tenjin mon clan amoung the ninja clans, and you cant forget about Raidou, the very reason Ayane exists. He could've had some connection to Obaba being he was doing dark magic and she is all about dark magic. He may have found out about Ayane and gloated that was his child with Ayame of the Tenjin mon thus Obaba simply calling her that "Tenjin" girl. Least thats how I think things may have went. Hope this made sense Embarassed



Actually she is "cursed", not really, of course lol



But that Raidou, Black Spider Clan and Obaba thing sounds interesting.....hmmm Shocked
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mohsin117
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Solitaryrose I like the connection that you made between Raidou and Obaba,
but can some on just confirm for me that Raidou is Shiden’s brother and not Ayame's
and Murai is Ryu’s mother’s brother right

its sad that the Mugen Tenshin haven’t played a role in NG but in NG1 i don’t think thare’s any need for the Mugen Tenshin to explain Ayane’s presence, i mean Ayane was under the training of Murai and working for Murai at the time, Ryu himself even says
“ah Ayane running errands for Murai again”
so i would say that’s Ayanes reson for helping Ryu in NG1 cos Murai has told her to, not saying that if it wasn’t for Murai Ayane wouldn’t help Ryu, i think Ayane would help Ryu out even if it breaks every rule in the book apart form a situation where Hayate would be upset, i and others have said before there are only a few or should i say a few alive that Ayane has any respect for and Ryu seems to be second on the list,

i think the reason why Ayane is helping Ryu is a bigger problem in NG2/S than it is in NG1 cos in NG1 we sort of know that Murai is giving her orders because at the time she’s under the care of Murai but in NG2/S i can’t see her being under the care of Joe im thinkg that hes was sent by Hayate or who ever to help out the Hayabusa and Ayane being as capable as she is is given the top mission of retrieving the Eye, i mean let’s face it the only other capable person in the Hayabusa is Momiji and im guessing she’s younger and clearly less experienced then Ayane

i do agree with what you said about neither clan taking orders from each other but i think that it’s a different story when it comes to Hayate and Ryu im not saying that Hayate “tells” Ryu what to do and Ryu carry’s out Hayates orders because Hayate is grater in status or anything but i think it’s more like they would give suggestions to each other, we just have to look at DOA to see that, Hayate’s plan to attack DOA HQ involves Ryu, but Ryu isn’t working under Hayate. Hayate’s plan clearly involves Ryu and the plan probably wouldn’t work without Ryu, i think it’s a similar case with Ayane and Ryu but only in this situation Ryu is in charge all the way, Ayane shows both respect and loyalty towards Ryu despite Ryu and his clan having on “official” connections to her what so ever and i don’t think Ayane would show that same amount of respect to any one else form the Hayabusa clan maybe excluding Joe
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Female Tengu
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

She just helps Ryu because he is Hayates best friend and only later she finds out who Murai really is.

And Itagaki wanted a guest charakter appearence. Very Happy


Ryu is just a "lonely" ninja. In the DOA3 cutscene from Hayate, you have good look of Hayate and Ryus relationship.
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Solitaryrose
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Moshin117-

I agree with everything you wrote. Makes perfect sense and Raidou is Shiden's brother (Doa1 manuel it links him to Shiden)and but Murai, I'm guessing what you said is correct or else Murai would have been of the Dragon lineage because I remember him saying in Ng1 that he is not of the Dragon lineage.(Please correct me if I'm wrong)Now one thing I am curious about and since it seems Kasumi is now going to be included in the Ninja Gaiden universe...maybe we can see what has Ryu so overprotective of her. He isnt of Ayane and only a slight bit with Hayate(least from what I've seen in the game and read from other's perspectives on random sites) Or am I looking too deep into this lol XD

@Cyberevil-My bad lol Embarassed

@Female Tengu-Ayane is kinda "cursed" ?? How so? You've got me curious ^^
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was playing, lol. God, I'm never going to shake this whole "ahole" thing I give off, am I?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think people have always speculated that there’s something between Kasumi and Ryu, and i do think its slightly hinted in DOA4 when Kasumi fights Alfa 152 Ryu runs up “says don’t die on me” which made me think why did he say “me” why not Hayate, as far as im aware the official reason why Ryu went to DOA1 was to protect Kasumi because he promised Hayate he would see it that Kasumi doesn’t get hurt, but even than again Ryu made a promise to Hayate whilst he was in a comer and even after the Hijen mon but a hit out on her and the return of Hayate, Ryu continued to protect her, so it does seem more like a personal reason

as for him being more protective of her i think it’s because Kasumi’s not really the fighter, yes she’s got the skills but she doesn’t want to fight and would try to avoid it, she’s a lot more innocent and as for Ayane she can clearly look after herself and you know i would say the enemy would need someone to protect them from the wrath of Ayane

im not rely one for the romance and all that but i have to say a personal story is a lot better than a political story, i would much rather have Ryu saving the world for Kasumi then have him do it because its the right thing to do or it’s what he’s been trained for,

i’d say that NG has always had that personal story line to it, Ryu’s always saving the world to avenge his clan or to get revenge, and the fact that the fate of the world hangs in the balance makes no difference to him which i think is cool

and if adding Kasumi to it just makes it more personal then im all for that,

i personally think they should have Ryu and Kasumi as a couple just to stop stupid characters such as Rachel and Sonia who always seem to have this one sided romance with Ryu at the end of each game, and im 100% positive that Kasumi would do more for NG in terms of story and fan serves and even combat then any underdressed over blossomed blond girl that Team NINJA can come up with,

i mean she fits perfectly with Ryu and NG,

plez Team NINJA stop giving us stupid half assed characters especially when you got characters such as Kasumi and Hayate sitting around

any way Kasumi is probably going to be in NG3 yes?
but what do you guys think that here relationship with Ayane is going to be like?
one of the things we’d have to consider is what period in time NG3 will take place, is it going to be before DOA1 or 2 or is it going to be after DOA4 or even further in the future,

Hayasi did mention some stuff about Shinji which might meant it’s going to be allot further in the future but the end of NGS2 it seemed like NG3 would take place days after NGS2

I personally want it to take place straight after NG2/S2 and not further in the future and involving Shinji
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