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The "Tenjin girl" ?
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WeaN
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:05 am    Post subject: The "Tenjin girl" ? Reply with quote

So, before their fight, Obaba calls Ayane the "Tenjin girl".
I didn't play Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword so maybe there are parts of the plot I'm missing, but being a long time DOA fan, I can't help but think it's a little mistake.
Isn't Ayane part of the Hajinmon branch of the Mugen Tenshin clan ? Calling her "Hajin girl" would have made much more sense in my opinion Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayane is still a part of the ruling family of the Mugen Tenshin and the Hajinmon is a part of the Mugen Tenshin, so itís still the same thing, just look at it like this you can call someone who lives in London, British or a Londoner itís the same thing,

I did pick up on that when Obaba said it and i actually think its a sneaky hint from Team NINJA cos calling her ďthe Tenshin girlĒ not only refers to her being from the Mugen Tenshin but itís also establishing the Mugen Tenshin permanently in the NG Universe in general as well as referring to Hayate and Kasumi,

So if she did call her the "the Hajin girl" then that only refers to Ayane

Also the fact that Obaba knows that Ayane is from the Mugen Tenshin makes me believe that the Muugen Tenshin has been involved with the Fiends or the Black Spider clan before, defiantly setting something up for the future

Iv played a little of NGDS and from what i know Ayane is not in NGDS
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, sounds weird if you hear the line for the first time.

Ayanes fighting style is Mugen Tenshin Style, Ninjutsu Hajin Mon. So I guess it's right. Altough officially she is not a member of the ruling family. But everyone knows the truth of course. She was born right into the Mugen Tenshin Clan.

But I have to agree. Ayane is the strongest Shinobi in Hajin Mon and she is also well known for her strenght in the DOA storyline. So "Tenshin girl" is some kind of a collective term and makes no really sense in this dialog. In this case Kasumi is also a "Tenshin girl". So I think "Hajin girl" would fit the whole scene better because Ayane is Ayane and not Kasumi.

But I'm still wondering why Obaba knows Ayane...
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WeaN
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the kind of answer I was expecting Smile

Well, I did think about the fact Obaba could have been referring to the Mugen Tenshin clan as a whole, but she did say "Tenjin" and not "Tenshin", which leads me to believe she definitely meant the specific part of the clan Ayane is supposed to be from.
From my understanding, "shin" and "jin" are written with the same kanji - "Mugen Tenshin is written 霧絃天神 in Japanese, but I don't think they would actually make the mistake of saying Mugen Tenjin... now that I think about, it might just be a typo from the English script. Gotta check the Japanese version dialog.

mohsin117 wrote:
Iv played a little of NGDS and from what i know Ayane is not in NGDS

I was thinking about Obaba, actually. Dunno how much they fleshed the character out in the previous game, but that might have been a lead on her actual knowledge regarding the clan.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought she said Tenshin but i will look and again the next time i play Ayaneís story,
I think it was a good thing referring to her as the Tenshin girl cos the Mugen Tenshin is the ruling clan unlike the Hajin Mo, it sort of feels like it pulls up her status, we already know that Ayanes got the skills but being from the Hajin Mo she doesnít have the rank to go with it but benig form the Mugen Tenshin she has the rank and status to go with it
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She practices Tenjin Mon-style ninjutsu. That's why she was called that.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, that's Kasumi.
Ayane practices Hajin Mon... that's the reason why that scene puzzles me.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT: Actually, the answer is a bit more complicated. Ayane was brought up in the head family until an unspecified age. At this point in the timeline it's entirely possible she's a Tenjin Mon practitioner like Kasumi and Hayate. She isn't taught Hajin Mon until she's sent to the other sect that watches over the head family.

Most likely it was actually a mistake, especially considering Obaba had never met Ayane and at this point she wouldn't have done anything noteworthy enough to gain notoriety.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure Kasumi and Hayate are practicing the Tenjin Mon style of Mugen Tenshin, while Ayane is part of the Hajin Mon lead by Genra. I've been playing DOA for years since the very first game. Ayane will even say it in some of her wining quotes.

CyberEvil wrote:
She isn't taught Hajin Mon until she's sent to the other sect that watches over the head family.

Which happened while she was still a little kid, based on what we see during the supposedly cannon DOA Ultimate intro.






In NGS2 she's already a teenager.

CyberEvil wrote:
Most likely it was actually a mistake, especially considering Obaba had never met Ayane and at this point she wouldn't have done anything noteworthy enough to gain notoriety.

How could she recognize Ayane if she never met her ? This doesn't make sense.

If you want my opinon that's a plot hole, once again.
NG is full of them. For instance, I also find it odd that Ayane seems to take orders from Joe during NGS2, while she isn't even part of the Hayabusa clan. When I first saw the cutscene back in the demo, I thought Joe was actually Genra, which would have made more sense.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WeaN wrote:
For instance, I also find it odd that Ayane seems to take orders from Joe during NGS2, while she isn't even part of the Hayabusa clan. When I first saw the cutscene back in the demo, I thought Joe was actually Genra, which would have made more sense.

The Hayabusa Clan have been in an Alliance with the Mugen Tenshin Clan even before Kasumi and Ayane were born.
Seeing how the Hajin Mon is a sect of the Mugen Tenshin, it's not surprising the Hajin Mon is below the Hayabusa Clan and thus take orders from both the Mugen Tenshin and Hayabusa Clan.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@WeaN

yes, Kasumi and Hayate practicing the same fighting style (of course lol)

Kasumi: Mugen-Tenshin-Style Ninjutsu Tenjin Mon
Hayate: Mugen-Tenshin-Style Ninjutsu Tenjin Mon

and Ayane is a little bit different:

Ayane: Mugen-Tenshin-Style Ninjutsu Hajin Mon
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already said it was likely an error. Either way, NG isn't technically canon anyway. There is no way that DoA's story works with NG's as well. Ayane was supposed to be 14 in NG/B/S. She's 16 in DoA2.

Her inclusion is mostly fanservice, as it always was meant to be. Fleshing her out in Sigma 2 just causes problems.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was weird that Ayane grew up in the Mugen Tenshin head family and then was moved to the Hajin Mon, cos how do they explain Ayane living with the family when nobody knows about her, it would have been better if Ayane was sent to the Hajin Mon straight after birth and then once she grew up a little she was brought back to live with the ruling family through the intersection of Ayami or some thing

XNinjaRed wrote:
The Hayabusa Clan have been in an Alliance with the Mugen Tenshin Clan even before Kasumi and Ayane were born.
Seeing how the Hajin Mon is a sect of the Mugen Tenshin, it's not surprising the Hajin Mon is below the Hayabusa Clan and thus take orders from both the Mugen Tenshin and Hayabusa Clan.

well i canít see that happening just cos the Hajin Mon ranks lower to the Mugen Tenshinís ruling family doesnít mean that the Hayabusa can give orders to them, their totally different clans yes thereís alliances between the two and i think that is what it is,
i would say the reason why Ayane is taking orders from Joe or took orders from Murai is Hayate or Genra or even someone who ranks higher then Ayane from the Mugen Tenshin has told her to go help them out so Ayane goes as a representative for the Mugen Tenshin

i donít think we should assume that Obaba has never met Ayane or the Mugen Tenshin, cos that whole comment i think clearly hinds to a past between the Mugen Tenshin and the Black Spider clan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mohsin117 wrote:
I thought it was weird that Ayane grew up in the Mugen Tenshin head family and then was moved to the Hajin Mon, cos how do they explain Ayane living with the family when nobody knows about her, it would have been better if Ayane was sent to the Hajin Mon straight after birth and then once she grew up a little she was brought back to live with the ruling family through the intersection of Ayami or some thing


Ayane didn't grew up in the head family. She lived by an old man outside the village (name not known) until she was 6 or 7 years old Wink
At the same time when the Tenshin Mon moved Ayane to the village of the Hajin Mon, her mother (Ayame) told her the truth.


I think she only helps Ryu because Hayate and Ryu are best friends. And the connection between Ayane and Hayate should be clear. She would never dissapoint him.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

do I was just look ing at the comic/strategy guide and in Ayanes section in her ninpo description it says
ďan ancient TenjinÖĒ
so im guessing it wasnít a mistake unless itís a mistake here as well
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