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anyone know about hp2 and hp1 karma scores?
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blackninja
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:14 am    Post subject: anyone know about hp2 and hp1 karma scores? Reply with quote

if someone does i will like to know it.
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Daemon_Maior
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, people get them, they're usually like, a few million.
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weibull760
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep! People play them, then they get scores. Not much else to it.

Maybe you should ask something specific since my mind-reading capabilities have dwindled from playing too much NG Razz
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blackninja
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you have a list of top ten hp2?
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Daemon_Maior
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

now we're getting somewere.


no, I don't
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HP2 doesn't really matter. Not a good way to judge someone's skill.
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weibull760
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sabotage wrote:
HP2 doesn't really matter. Not a good way to judge someone's skill.


And why doesn't it matter? And I would love to see someone in the 10 that doesn't have skill. I agree it might not be the best way to judge, but then again what ways do you have to judge skill objectively other than Karma (not specifically HP2 but karma in general)?

And I don't have a list of the top 10 but if I get a chance tonight or tomorrow, I'll post it.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HP2 comes down to pure luck, plain and simple. We all know how to hit each encounter, it just comes down to time. The faster you kill everything, the more kill bonus you get. Sometimes the AI will line up just right and allow you MASSIVE Kill Bonus', other times the AI won't. HP2 just comes down to replaying each phase over and over and over again until you hit each encounter as fast as possible for each phase. Again, more luck involved than skill. The only skill you need is to know how to assign Dabilahro, hold Y, then release....

HP2 is more of a test of patience and perseverance. Very little skill involved IMO, therefore I don't see it as a justifiable way to judge someone's skill. We all play it the same way, the only thing that seperates us all is how lucky we were with the enemy spawn placements. If you can't see that then you haven't played NG long enough.
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weibull760
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sabotage wrote:
HP2 comes down to pure luck, plain and simple.


I'm sorry but I'm going to have to go ahead an disagree with you on that one *office space anyone? Razz*. I do agree that there is definitely an element of luck involved due to initial enemy placement, what moves the bosses do, etc. But the small amount of karma that seperates the top 10 requires huge amounts of skill to obtain.

The fact that you said
Quote:
We all know how to hit each encounter, it just comes down to time. The faster you kill everything, the more kill bonus you get
lets me know that you really don't know how to get a top 10 score. You have to balance out time remaining with number of UT's you get and number of intercepts you can get in every encounter. Ph. 5 is the best example of this. If you just finish off all 3 battles as fast as you can, you'll get a dismal score. But if you milk the intercepts as well as maximize the number of UT's, then you can really see a huge point gain. Its not all about doing everything as fast as possible.

And yes I have played HP2 over and over and over again. And by doing that, I can say with absolute certainty that its not just about luck. Because if it was, every time I played I would have an equal chance of getting that top score. And there would be no pattern of improvement. But I can consistantly get much higher scores now then I could say 2-3 months ago and I've been playing HP2 since last october.

Now since you didn't answer my previous question, I assume you think that any karma based evaluation of skill is pointless. Am I correct? Since to you its all about killing everyone as fast as possible and as we all know, all that takes is repetition to get good at. And if karma is not a good indicator of skill, then may I ask again, what is a good, objective, method to do so?

And I am in no way saying that you're not skilled if your not in the top 10 in all the tournaments. But I'm just saying that the people in the top 10% or so definitely have skill or they wouldn't be there. A truly crappy player could not just redo HP1 or HP2 a million times and get a top score, theres just no way. He would be competing against people that are really skilled AND have the patience and perserverance to hone their techinque and squeeze every little point out of every encounter. Most people don't even understand the karma engine well enough to do that.

The only reason I'm saying all of this is because its like a slap in the face to all of those players that have put in a lot of hard work AND skill into getting their scores. But you are entitled to your opinion and I don't mind if you think I'm not skilled but I know many people whose names grace those leaderboards and they are, without a doubt, skilled players.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weibull760 wrote:
sabotage wrote:
HP2 comes down to pure luck, plain and simple.


I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I do agree that there is definitely an element of luck involved due to initial enemy placement, what moves the bosses do, etc. But the small amount of karma that seperates the top 10 requires huge amounts of skill to obtain.

The fact that you said
Quote:
We all know how to hit each encounter, it just comes down to time. The faster you kill everything, the more kill bonus you get
lets me know that you really don't know how to get a top 10 score. You have to balance out time remaining with number of UT's you get and number of intercepts you can get in every encounter. Ph. 5 is the best example of this. If you just finish off all 3 battles as fast as you can, you'll get a dismal score. But if you milk the intercepts as well as maximize the number of UT's, then you can really see a huge point gain. Its not all about doing everything as fast as possible.

And yes I have played HP2 over and over and over again. And by doing that, I can say with absolute certainty that its not just about luck. Because if it was, every time I played I would have an equal chance of getting that top score. And there would be no pattern of improvement. But I can consistantly get much higher scores now then I could say 2-3 months ago and I've been playing HP2 since last october.

Now since you didn't answer my previous question, I assume you think that any karma based evaluation of skill is pointless. Am I correct? Since to you its all about killing everyone as fast as possible and as we all know, all that takes is repetition to get good at. And if karma is not a good indicator of skill, then may I ask again, what is a good, objective, method to do so?

And I am in no way saying that you're not skilled cuz your not in the top 10 in all the tournaments. But I'm just saying that the people in the top 10% or so definitely have skill or they wouldn't be there. A truely crappy player could not just redo HP1 or HP2 a million times and get a top score, theres just no way. He would be competing against people that are really skilled AND have the patience and perserverance to hone their techinque and squeeze every little point out of every encounter. Most people don't even understand the karma engine well enough to do that.

The only reason I'm saying all of this is because its like a slap in the face to all of those players that have put in a lot of hard work AND skill into getting their scores. But you are entitled to your opinion and I don't mind if you think I'm not skilled but I know many people whose names grace those leaderboards and they are, without a doubt, skilled players.



1.) I know all about milking karma points by intercepting. Timing is a skill, I agree, but it's also an easy skill to obtain. It's all just muscle memory and animation recognition.

2.) Yea, I know you have to balance time, UT's, and certain number of intercepts to get a acceptable score. Doesn't really change the fact that there is still an element of luck involved to get all 3 to flow naturally to get the approriate amount of points possible. I don't like having luck determine my outcome.

3.) No, I don't think an evaluation of Karma points is useless to determine someones skill. I just see HP#1 as a better way to determine an individuals skill. If you compare the point splits in HP#1 and HP#2 you'll notice much bigger gaps in Karma points between ranks in HP#1. HP#2 everybodies all crammed together, barely seperated by a couple thousand Karma points. Big whoop, the guy above me, last time I checked was only 100 points above me. 100 POINTS! That's seriously NOTHING in Ninja Gaiden.

4.) I'm not trying to belittle anybody who placed in the top 10 of HP#2, (Which yes, I know your in the top 10 of HP#2, congrats with that) I'm just saying you don't see many of them anywhere in the top 20 of HP#1. (Except of course Saryah, Capt. Tuttle, and maybe a couple others. Don't remember seeing you in the top 20. Correct me if I'm wrong) I don't see Deep Blue anywhere in the top 20 of HP1. Actually, I don't remember seeing a couple others that are in the top 10 of HP2 in the top 20 of HP1 to be honest with you. They could be on there now though, haven't checked the rankings in awhile. I for one, last time I checked, was in the top 20 of both HP's. Of course this was like 2 months ago when I last checked so I no doubt probably lost a couple ranks but that's nothing to me. NGB is coming out anyways. Laughing

5.) I've played HP#2 a total of 3 times. First time was with DS only just to get a feel for it. I ended up ranking like 200 something. I realized then that the key to scoring high in HP#2 was no doubt chaining UT's, and what better UT to use than the Dabilahro. Second attempt I got ranked 50th something. That's a 150 rank jump by doing something as simple as chaining UT's. 3rd attempt I was in the top 20 and I pretty much got bored of HP2 and went back to HP1. Your obviously more knowledgable in the point system of HP2 so I'll just admit I was wrong by saying to get in the top 10 of HP2 you have to know what needs to be done and get it done like you said. But I still feel HP1 is a better way to determine a player's skill level.
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Daemon_Maior
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, basically what you're saying is thet you think HP2 is too short to determine who is better by way of Karma?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't mention anything about HP#2's length being a factor.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'll fix it.

Daemon_Maior should have wrote:
so, basically what you're saying is that you think in HP2 you don't get enough Karma to determine who is better by way of Karma?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NO, I'm not saying that either.

I'm saying, HP#1 is a better way to determine a players skill. For these simple reason:

1.)You can't chain UT's in HP#1 like you can in HP#2

2.)HP#1 you start with basically nothing, HP#2 you start with more weapons plus you get infinite ammo

3.)Key items are more expensive in HP#1, everything is cheap as hell in HP#2

I could go on but I think you see the point now.
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blackninja
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is HP1 harder then very hard?
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